8 Replies Latest reply on Feb 20, 2016 7:15 PM by Frankenscripter4

    NUC D54250WYKH Win 7 x64 SP1 installation: Windows updates challenges... solution and discussion please?

    Frankenscripter4

      Hi folks,

       

      I spent much of the weekend installing Win 7 x64 SP1 on my NUC D54250WYKH, which had previously been running Mint and a couple other things as a sandbox of sorts. This NUC is going to be repurposed as a kids computer and home theater PC (won't update to Win 10 which removes Windows Media Center). So, I started clean by wiping the old partitions on the internal mSATA 256GB card. My unit has 8 GB RAM but no wifi/BT card installed. I was using hardwired Ethernet via the jack on the NUC; nothing funky. I figured it would be and easy install. Boy was I wrong.

       

      Let me start with the big problem: After installing Windows, Windows Update wouldn't update. I'll skip straight to the solution, which I found hours later: run the Windows Update Readiness tool (KB947821). But I have lots of questions yet unanswered.

       

      Here are the details:

      1. I booted from a USB with the Windows installation media. The installation went as usual from the USB up to the point where the installer downloads updates. It sat there for a very few seconds, then instead of taking a long time dependent on download speeds, it zipped past it to the next step. I thought: Huh. I guess the installer can't recognize the LAN hardware in this NUC. Sigh, Windows update will take a long time.

       

      2. I booted to windows to finish the installation. Not surprisingly, there was no network in windows. So I installed the LAN driver from a USB, that I had ready to go. In a couple minutes my network was up and running. I updated the chipset driver, graphics driver, etc. all over the web, verifying a nicely functional LAN connection. So far so good.

       

      3. Tried to run Windows Update. No Go. It sat there saying checking for updates for over an hour, not apparently finding anything. I tried activating the Windows, and got an error message (the kind that is like 0x800000AE7 or somesuch). Couldn't even get to the point of phone activation.

       

      4. The next many hours were spent googling and trying things unsuccessfully, including doing a complete reinstall with freshly downloaded SP1x64 media. No dice. Windows update always hung.

       

      5. Finally, I discovered the Windows Update Readiness Tool which apparently "fixes many windows update problems."  After running it, it sat at the standalone Windows Update "searching" prompt for a while. Then it offered to install the 947821 update. I agreed. Immediately when that was done, Windows update worked, within a few minutes found hundreds of updates,  and I let it install everything overnight. I was able to activate in the morning.

       

      So, why does the NUC not even support some legacy LAN mode to allow Win 7 installation to properly fetch updates during install? And why is the need for the Update Readiness tool not documented somewhere VERY PROMINENTLY. This would have saved me the better part of a day.

       

      Does anyone have any other discussion around this, or alternate experiences / fixes?

       

      Other issues: getting into BIOS or choosing boot order is an ordeal whenever I try. Only works 1 time in ~5 with F2 or other BIOS keys. IS there a way to make it wait LONGER at the "Press F2 to enter BIOS" screen? My monitor barely syncs before the thing boots straight into the OS. FastBoot is not enabled.

       

      I like the NUC; nice box! But wow it was a challenge to get Win7 on there and up and running properly.

       

      Marc

        • 1. Re: Win 7 x64 SP1 installation: Windows updates challenges... solution and discussion please?
          ivanu_intel

          Hello Frankenscripter4,

           

          Thank you for joining the Intel communities.

           

          Honestly we have not heard this problem with Windows 7 using this unit, this unit has been working very smooth with Windows 7, I’m not sure if somebody else has experience this problem, if somebody else has then they can posted here.

           

          About the time that it takes for you to access the BIOS when you get the F2 prompt I would suggest if you can access the BIOS to press F9 once you are in the BIOS to set the BIOS to defaults settings and then press F10 to save all changes.

           

          If this does not work try updating the BIOS to the latest version, you can download the latest version here:

          Download BIOS Update [WYLPT10H.86A]

           

          Please see.

          F7 BIOS Update Instructions for Intel® NUC

           

          Best wishes,

           

          Ivan

          • 2. Re: Win 7 x64 SP1 installation: Windows updates challenges... solution and discussion please?
            Frankenscripter4

            Hi ivanu_intel,

             

            Thanks for the response. I updated my BIOS on the same day I installed Windows 7, by using the windows-based updater utility. So, I'm already on the latest 0041 version for the NUC D54250WYKH. This lets us rule out an old BIOS version. For the record, when I was running whatever the original BIOS version I had was, I did see the BIOS boot options briefly. Now that I'm on the 0041 BIOS, not so much... it could also be that now that there's a Windows OS on the box, it doesn't hang out at the boot option screen so long (I had a few flavors of MINT installed previously).

             

            Anyway, this is what I see if I boot from a powered off state, connected to a monitor (same results on three monitors) via HDMI. For the record, the monitor is powered on but inactive (the current monitor attached has a light that blinks slowly when it is on but not receiving a video signal). Within about 2 seconds of pressing the power button, the monitor detects an incoming signal (stops blinking that light). The screen remains black, though it might flicker once or twice. A few seconds later I see the beginnings of "Windows is Starting" and I'm at the login screen by around 15-16 seconds. RARELY do I get a brief flicker of the boot options for a few milliseconds... just enough to detect them, before it goes to Windows is Starting.

             

            NUC_BootDisplay.jpg

             

            I'm inserting a picture of the boot display config so you can see what I have selected.  Is it possible I've missed a setting somewhere, which would allow the boot options to stay up for enough time to act on them?

             

            Note, pressing and holding F2 sometimes works, sometimes doesn't. I got lucky this time and was able to get into the main BIOS area... but often it won't do this.

             

            It's possible that the boot options ARE coming up, just not for long enough for any of my monitors (an HP, an ASUS, or a Samsung) to reliably sync and display them before the screen times out and the OS boots. I have tried resetting defaults as you suggested, without any effect.

             

            Thank you in advance for any assistance you can provide.

             

            Marc

            • 3. Re: NUC D54250WYKH Win 7 x64 SP1 installation: Windows updates challenges... solution and discussion please?
              ivanu_intel

              I would uncheck “Boot USB Devices First” because you don’t need to boot from USB first if you already have Windows installed, everything else looks good.

               

              I’m not sure if this unit came with the jumper located in pins 2 and 3, try changing the jumper location, you can see how the jumper is located and what it does on the images below.

              Jumper.PNG

              JumperSettings.PNG

              1 of 1 people found this helpful
              • 4. Re: NUC D54250WYKH Win 7 x64 SP1 installation: Windows updates challenges... solution and discussion please?
                N.Scott.Pearson

                It looks like this discussion is going off on an unnecessary tangent. I am responding to the original posting...

                 

                In my final years with Intel (before retiring), I probably installed Windows 7 (SP0 and SP1) onto the WY (and other) NUCs a hundred times (or more!). Since I bought a WY to replace my wife's ancient PC and was also gifted one when I retired, I have probably installed Windows 7 onto these NUCs a dozen times or more since then (ok, I play a lot - including reproducing customer issues). I have *never* seen this issue occur (and I have worked with almost every BIOS release so I know this isn't a contributor). I have seen situations where the first run of Windows Update takes a long, long time to run, but I always blamed this on the fact that there are a couple of hundred updates to be identified, downloaded (almost a GB!) and installed - and I thus usually start this just before going to bed. In my next install, I will remember to install and run this tool before running Windows Update for the first time. Maybe it will speed things up...

                 

                The images for Windows 7 are static and many years old now [Microsoft: time for a new SP! (fat chance we'll ever see it)]. On the other hand, the Intel LAN solutions that are built into the NUCs (and most other Intel and Third-party) board and system products are being improved regularly. As a result, there is rarely a case where the right LAN driver is there and available in the image. I handle this by regularly updating my Windows 7 installation media (flash drives) with all (not just LAN!) of the latest drivers available before I start an install. I also include copies of some KB updates (etc.) on this media and run them before going near Windows Update (and here's another one I will be adding). I realize that most folks are not this organized (and certainly have no where near the knowledge level that I do after 35 years in the software engineering field) and they expect that things are going to be completely handled by Microsoft's installers. Sadly, this isn't the case. This isn't (just) a NUC issue; it is an industry-wide issue. It isn't tied to Microsoft or Windows; the situation can actually be worse with Linux (because open source moves so much slower, it can take a long time for updates to filter down into all of the various distributions). In some respects, I am glad to be retired and not tasked with finding a solution for this issue...

                 

                ...Scott

                • 5. Re: NUC D54250WYKH Win 7 x64 SP1 installation: Windows updates challenges... solution and discussion please?
                  Frankenscripter4

                  ivanu_intel,

                   

                  Thank you for the jumper information. It's interesting stuff.

                   

                  Currently the jumper is removed. An early frustration of mine with my recent installation was that I figured I would update the BIOS prior to doing my Win 7 installation. I couldn't get the BIOS to update and eventually found out about the security jumper and removed it as a test; I still wasn't able to get the BIOS to update from within the BIOS. I got an error to the effect of unable to download the catalog, or some such.  Updating later via the windows utility went smoothly, BTW (with the jumper still removed). I just haven't reinstalled the jumper, but will put it back in Normal mode. I've no need of the lockdown in my home situation.

                   

                  As for the boot USB devices first, I will be leaving that as-is. About once a month I will be booting from a USB key to perform an image backup.  An annoyance I've noticed is that if I boot into BIOS with a USB key inserted, it's easy enough to alter the boot order, F10 save the change, reboot, and it will boot from the key.  If I later remove the key, and at some later time reboot with the key re-inserted, the BIOS forgets my preferred order. So, I have to go to effort to change the USB key boot order. Presumably using the BOOT USB DEVICES FIRST option will eliminate this. I just noticed it that night when I took the picture to post, and checked it then. Haven't rebooted with a USB key yet, but will later tonight.

                   

                  Is there any other setting that can make the boot options display for long enough to react to them? What is the normal interval between pressing ON, having the options show, and the timeout which leads to continuing to boot past these messages? In other words, for how long do  they normally display?

                  • 6. Re: NUC D54250WYKH Win 7 x64 SP1 installation: Windows updates challenges... solution and discussion please?
                    Frankenscripter4

                    N.Scott.Pearson,

                     

                    Thanks for taking the time to write a very thoughtful reply. I appreciate it!

                     

                    I enjoyed your perspective and agree with everything you've said. It gave me some solace that you mentioned "I also include copies of some KB updates (etc.) on this media and run them before going near Windows Update" ... which is probably needed to get Win7 to update cleanly, based on the ancient-by-today's-standards W7x64SP1 standard installation media.

                     

                    I'm just surprised the need to take "special measures" to get Win7 to update post install isn't more widely documented, or at least, more likely to come up in a Google search. It's odd for me to have to spend so much time on an installation. I'm not an industry insider but I'm reasonably savvy in things technical.

                     

                    On the bright side, the NUC has performed well this past week, and I'll be playing around with it some more.

                     

                    Meanwhile, on the "boot options" issue, the options do seem to show up fairly regularly now when I boot, but only for half a second before it skips past them and moves to booting the OS. I wish there was a way to set a timeout value... say 10 seconds or so, so they would be up long enough for my monitors to sync and a human being to react.

                     

                    Ah well, a guy can always dream!

                     

                    Marc

                    • 7. Re: NUC D54250WYKH Win 7 x64 SP1 installation: Windows updates challenges... solution and discussion please?
                      N.Scott.Pearson

                      Considering how much work we put into speeding up BIOS POST over the years, this is an almost ironic conversation!

                       

                      There actually *is* a way to delay the startup.  Here's how to do so:

                       

                      1. Enter Visual BIOS. Immediately after power on (or reset), hit the F2 button over and over until it is taken. Don't just hold it; that is not guaranteed to be taken.
                      2. In Visual BIOS, click on Advanced, then Devices and then on the SATA tab.
                      3. The last parameter on this tab, Hard Disk Pre-Delay, provides a slider that you can use to choose how long the BIOS will wait for slow peripheral devices to ready themselves. Set this to 10 seconds.
                      4. Exit from Visual BIOS remembering to save the parameter change.

                       

                      Voila! You have a 10 second delay

                      ...S

                      1 of 1 people found this helpful
                      • 8. Re: NUC D54250WYKH Win 7 x64 SP1 installation: Windows updates challenges... solution and discussion please?
                        Frankenscripter4

                        Perfect solution! Thank you!

                         

                        I've set it to 8 seconds which for my monitor sync timing gives me plenty of time to hit a key, but no so long that I get impatient. Excellent!