11 Replies Latest reply on Jan 8, 2010 11:11 AM by Zorlac

    intel eist related to frequent crashing/ freezes on  i7 860

    homebuilder

      new build, using ff components:

       

      intel i7 860

      gigabyte p55A-ud3p

      ocz DDR3 1600 8-8-8-24 2T 1.66v

      nvidia gtx260

      antec tp-750 W psu

      samsung 1 tb f2 hdd

      samsung 250 gb f1 hdd

      oem dvd drive

      windows 7 64bit home premium

       

      put new system together to provide more horspower for hi-def video editing.

      ran system on default bios settings, c1e, c3, eist on, turbo on, HTT on = crashes/freezes intermittently, particularly with video on ie. requires hard reset

      ran memtest overnight, no errors detected

      disabled c1e, c3 left eist on = less frequent crashing, but still having problems with video

      disabled eist = no more crashing, but computer runs at 2.93 all the time

      disabled eist and overclocked system to 3.255 (155 fsb x 21 multi) overnight prime 95 = no issues

       

      wanted to share in large part due to people experienceing same issues on windows 7 and intel processors.

      also, want to know who to expect a fix for this issue, intel or gigabyte. would really like to have eist enabled, but no real energy saved when project never gets completed or has to be redone several times.

        • 1. Re: intel eist related to frequent crashing/ freezes on  i7 860
          phil_l

          Hi

           

          It may be the power supply, do you have a new power supply, is it on the Intel approved list?

           

          Some power supplies can have problems with the very quick fluctuating load that EIST can cause, if they can't react quick enough there can be voltage spikes or reduction in voltages.

           

          Edit: sorry just noticed you listed the power supply.  I can't see this as one tested/approved by Intel http://www.intel.com/reseller/psu_selector, of course that doesn't necessarily mean anything as they don't list ones they have tested that don't work.  So it may just not be tested.  The other thing that strikes me is it is a very high wattage, it is unlikely you need anywhere near that power, and some power supplies struggle with very light loads on some rails, which of course can happen with modern processors when they essentially turn off completely in between cursor flashes!

           

          Also see this thread, sounds like a similar issue http://communities.intel.com/thread/6900?start=0&tstart=0

           

          Regards

           

          Phil

          • 2. Re: intel eist related to frequent crashing/ freezes on  i7 860
            homebuilder

            the power supply argument is one of those things that seems to me the end user can never win. if you use a no-name brand psu, the push back is , "well you used a cheap, crappy psu that can't deliver", as in the thread you linked. now, with a respected psu brand with significant allowance for wattage, you are saying, "well, you're using too much power". having been a builder for 8 years now, psu are somthing that i have learned a long time ago to never skimp on. i hear what you are saying aout that certification and capability to rapidly switch states, which does make sense, but again, having a feature that causes system instability on what would be considered premium parts is concerning to say the least.

            • 3. Re: intel eist related to frequent crashing/ freezes on  i7 860
              phil_l

              Hi

               

              I understand what you are saying, however there is a problem with having too high a rated power supply, which most people don't need, but marketing plays a part in order to sell more expensive products.  Due to the way they work, some powersupplies will not start up if the load is too light, others have a fake load (resistor) inside the powersupply to add extra load so they can start.  I have a 550 watt powersupply that comes with a monitor that shows how much of its capacity is being used, at idle this is less around 8-10%, only jumping to around 15-20% if I use burn-in program to load the processor.  Most power supplies need to draw at least if not more than 20% to work efficiently, so I could easily get away with a decent 200-300 watt supply and still have some to spare, plus it would waste less electricity as heat.

               

              If you buy a cheap and cheerful powersupply then going for something of a higher rating is probably wise as the ratings advertised for cheap ones are not the true rating, they are peak loads rather than continuous or some other dubious way of adding it all it up, as bigger numbers sell more.  By a decent branded powersupply and you getting more or less what is advertised so can get away with lesser watt rating than you might expect.

               

              Not saying the powersupply is your issue, but might be. 

               

              Let us know how you get on or if you solve it.

               

              Regards

               

              Phil

              • 4. Re: intel eist related to frequent crashing/ freezes on  i7 860
                homebuilder

                hi phil,

                 

                just in case you aren't familiar with antec power supplies, here is a link to a review for my particular psu http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/766 and http://www.futurelooks.com/antec-true-power-750-watt-tp-750-power-supply-review/. "cheap" hardly describes it either. people who build computers for gaming also prefer hefty psu's to power dual video cards.

                 

                as i had mentioned in my first post, my system is stable with a rather conservative overclock at stock voltages. what i would like to get more info on is a possible solution to running the cpu at stock settings with eist on and have a stable system. i am hoping that by posting here, it might come to the attention of an intel insider and see if they can recreate my issue, and hopefully, solve it.

                 

                thanks.

                • 5. Re: intel eist related to frequent crashing/ freezes on  i7 860
                  cyclo

                  It could be your RAM (even if they all pass memtest)... especially if you are using 4 sticks or RAM. Try running the PC with 2 or even 1 stick of RAM at a time.

                   

                  I am have an i860 on a Gigabyte P55A UD4P motherboard with 4 sticks of Kingston RAM (1333), ATI 5850 based video card and have absolutely no issues since the day I built it (Dec 26th)... I have turbo, speedstep, C3 sleep mode on. I am running everything at stock speeds, not really into overclocking... turbo mode is good enough for me. PC is used for video editing (Premier), playing games (so far I have spent hours on Dirt2), and app development.

                  • 6. Re: intel eist related to frequent crashing/ freezes on  i7 860
                    phil_l

                    Hi

                     

                    I never said the Antec you had was a cheap powersupply.  What I was trying to get across is that high wattage powersupplies can have problems supplying very low loads.  Intel processors when ramping down and dropping their voltages through EIST are going from on to essentially off in these green times, and this can cause power supplies a problem.  The higher the powersupply output, the higher its minimum loading is.  Graphics cards, the memory system, the hub, USB ports, optical drives, hard-drives, SSDs, they are all designed for maximum power efficiency these days to reduce heat and be green, so they will all be drawing very little power unless actively being loaded 100%.  So you have a 750 watt powersupply being asked to supply 30 watts of power and still meet the voltage regulation requirements, and also for it to act very quickly as the EIST is going on off without letting the voltage exceed or drop below the ATX specifications. The manufacturers are now adding false loads into powersupplies to ensure they see a load and start up properly and also so the loading remains high enough during idle states to allow the power supply to work okay.

                     

                    Your particular Antec powersupply doesn't appear on Intels list of tested hardware, so it is possible it isn't compatible.

                     

                    Other users have upped voltages which seem to help, of course upping the voltage is also upping the demand on the powersupply.

                     

                    One of the reasons you can disable EIST in the BIOS is because some powersupplies can’t work properly with it on.

                     

                    You may find this of interest http://www.anandtech.com/casecoolingpsus/showdoc.aspx?i=3413

                     

                    Regards

                     

                    Phil

                    • 7. Re: intel eist related to frequent crashing/ freezes on  i7 860
                      homebuilder

                      hi cyclo,

                       

                      nice build. would you like to share with us what kind of psu you have?

                      after reading you post, i am going to experiment with running the memory at a lower speed 1333 vs 1600 just to see if it makes a difference. the reason why i do not think it is the memory though is because the system is stable with eist off but not when it is on. i am running 2 sticks only of 2gb for a total of 4 gb.

                      • 8. Re: intel eist related to frequent crashing/ freezes on  i7 860
                        cyclo

                        I am using a Corsair HX650 PSU. When I do a build I usually run everything at stock first and if it is stable it is then that I start doing tweaks. First of all I would check Gigabyte's website if they have an updated BIOS. In my case they did and I loaded the new BIOS using the USB flash memory approach. Then I would go to Gigabyte's BIOS and select the "Load Optimized Defaults" and from there set either RAID or AHCI or IDE for the drives. The Optimized Defaults would use SPD for RAM which will probably downgrade the frequency of your RAM to 1066 or 1333.

                         

                        I would then see if this setup is stable... if it is I would then start adjusting the RAM frequency and timings to match those of the RAM ratings (ie. 1600 8-8-8-21). I would test this setting again to see if it is stable. If it is then tweaks for overclocking, etc., would follow. I have done many builds and in many cases especially with newly released chipsets/motherboards, it is usually the immature BIOS, immature drivers, and RAM incompatibility that causes issues.

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                        • 9. Re: intel eist related to frequent crashing/ freezes on  i7 860
                          homebuilder

                          cyclo,

                           

                          i think you helped me figure this out. the p55 chipset supports 1066/1333 natively, but not 1600/2000 except through overclocking. when the system is oc'd, eist, c1, c3, c6 disabled, no problems. to run at stock with eist on, a memory speed of 1333 (even on higher rated ram) helps with stability. whether this can be improved upon by a bios update to my mobo or a new intel driver to improve eist stability only time will tell. i'm up and running with power saving on, but at slower mem speed. thanks to you and phil_l for your help.

                          • 10. Re: intel eist related to frequent crashing/ freezes on  i7 860
                            cyclo

                            I'm glad you figured out what the problem is. I forgot to mention, in many cases, when you set your RAM's frequency higher (say 1600) you may also need to up the voltage to make the PC stable (in case you are encountering crashes/BSODs). For P55 motherboards though the highest voltage Intel says is safe is 1.65v. When you run stock (after selecting load optimized in BIOS) the voltages for the RAM will be reset to 1.5v.

                            • 11. Re: intel eist related to frequent crashing/ freezes on  i7 860
                              Zorlac

                              I had the same problem with my DP55KG and the i7-860 running 8GB of Corsair DDR3 1333MHz (JEDEC timings 9-9-9-24 @ 1.5V). Found out from the Corsair forums that this problem seems to be common when you populate all DIMM slots. The techs recommended increasing the voltage. My quick look at the Intel site mentioned 1.6V as a max for this motherboard and CPU, so I manually raised the RAM voltage in the BIOS from 1.5 to 1.6V and it fixed the problem.