12 Replies Latest reply on Mar 24, 2011 9:47 AM by JohnZS

    G1 trim support

    redux

      Intel, will you ever explain why trim will not be provided for Gen 1 drives? Enthusiasts spend a high premium for new technology that is often problematic and not fully utilisable at first release. Not only do enthusiasts pay a premium they also help iron out teething problems. Now it appears that there is an added price of having support removed.

       

      It just does not make sense to not give trim to gen 1 users and I can imagine that if you are retailer with gen 1 drives it must be hard to shift them.

      Is it technically not possible or is it just a short sighted marketing policy?

      This year Intel ssd’s will no longer be top performers so G1 owners that are unhappy with performance degradation are not likely to get a g2.

        • 1. Re: G1 trim support
          dbm

          I read on the "anandtech" website that there was a technical issue.  Heck i have 2 of theses gen1s, I will just keep using them until they stop working.

          • 2. Re: G1 trim support
            JohnZS

            I would also like to know Intel. A lot of us who purchased the Intel Solid State Drives (Gen1 drives) made our decisions to purchase these drives as we were under the impression that they would be supported BY Intel and that Intel would continue to provide updates for these drives to improve the performance and reliability of the drive.

            TRIM is both a performance and reliability improvement which other Solid State Vendors such as OCZ, Corsair and Samsung have been implimenting onto various solid sate drives.

            Why has Intel only decided to give those who purchased Gen2 drives this feature?

            Surely us who spend a lot of money on Gen1 drives (and at the time were promised firmware updates to improve the performance and reliability of this cutting edge technology) have NOT received a TRIM firmware?

            Am I right in assuming that we will get a Firmware within the next few months as the Gen2 drives had bugs which needed fixing?

            (I hope so).

            Are there any plans to perform TRIM(ing?) on RAID setups? (Perhaps a new Intel RAID Option ROM or Rapid Storage Techology driver will enable this feature?)

            A lot of users are experiencing gradual slow downs on their Generation drives and the only way to resolve this issue is to perform a FULL HDD Erase. Which might I add does not do the life cycle of the Solild State Drive any good as you are using lots of write cycles.

            To put things simply. TRIM not only enhances the Performance and the Reliability of a Solid State Drive... it also increases it's lifetime.

            Please Intel... Release the Firmwares.

            OR

            Setup some sort of Exchange Programme where Gen1 drive owners can RMA their drives for a Gen2 drive.

            Thank you.

            John

            • 3. Re: G1 trim support
              Ourasi

              Point out where you read that on Anandtech!

               

              If he uttered those words with that meaning, wich I doubt since I've read everything he has written about SSD, he is lying, there is ONLY one reason to abandon Gen. 1 owners, and that is to force them over to Gen. 2, and it stinks... This sentence is from Anand's latest article regarding Intel SSD: "Only the X25-M G2 gets TRIM, the G1 (right) is left in the dust."

               

              As for the technical aspects regarding TRIM on Gen. 1, I have actually seen the technical layout of Gen. 1 SSD's vs. other TRIM SSD's and know a little about FW coding, and I can quarantie everyone that there are no issues at all, so lay this "can not be done" speculation to rest once and for all. There are absolutely just down to the willingness of Intel leaders and Intel coders, period.

               

              As redux and JohnZS so rightfully points out, and me aswell in the past, these politics are just BS, and now that the performance crown seems to tilt towards Sandforce/C300, I for one as a 3 times Gen. 1 owner (2 X25-M 80gb, 1 X25-E 32gb), will NEWER buy Intel SSD again unless they come thru with a TRIM FW to the Gen. 1 SSD's.. As of now, the difference between Gen. 1 and Gen. 2 Mainstream Intel SSD are purely cosmetic (apart from a bit faster seq. write on 160gb models), Intel knew this ofcourse long before release of Gen. 2, and also knew that if they gave TRIM to Gen. 1, those users would stay on those drives. Especially the E model sorely needs TRIM, small expensive and no support, how fun for those of us who payed for the premium on these drives.

               

              I have a month pay worth of Gen. 1 drives more high maintanance then a spoiled teenager in my box, and I'm sick of it, I have HDDErase stuck in my throat, and I will hold out for the mentioned new Sandforce/C300 SSD's, unless Intel somehow sees the light and do the right thing...

               

              I have done everything in my power to pursuade Intel to do the right thing, but every time some clueless and blind "fanbois" screws up the productive discussion, and gives Intel a pass for the most discusting behaviour.. How can common sense be so hard to come by?

              • 4. Re: G1 trim support
                coup

                They don't give a sh*t about their customers, thats why.

                • 5. Re: G1 trim support
                  fluxx

                  I'm also very disappointed by Intel. I bought a G1 drive just a few months ago and it was conscious  decision towards Intel because I thought that one of the market leaders would give better support to its own products. It's a slap in the face of every consumer of a premium product to abandon it so soon. PLEASE INTEL give us at least trim support for our G1 drives!

                  • 6. Re: G1 trim support
                    lorax1284

                    If you want to show Intel that people pay attention when large corporations don't properly support their customers (ESPECIALLY use early adoptors!) sign this petition.

                     

                    http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/intel-x25-m-g1-trim/

                     

                    Post the link to this petition on other SSD related sites and particularly w.r.t. Intel SSD (even Gen 2) topics. Make sure potential customers of Intel's SSDs know what kind of long-term support to expect (or, more acurately, that they will not be well supported over time)

                    • 7. Re: G1 trim support
                      fluxx

                      Thanks for the hint, I already signed. Now let's hope Intel listens to the people who paid money for their products.

                      • 8. Re: G1 trim support
                        coup

                        "Thanks for the hint, I already signed. Now let's hope Intel listens to  the people who paid money for their products."

                         

                        They won't. Hasn't anybody realised yet that Intel don't give a ****?

                         

                        The only thing you can do is vote with your feet, which is rather difficult because Intel make the best products. Intel know this, which is why they get away with what they get away with.

                        • 9. Re: G1 trim support
                          fluxx

                          My G1 drive finally starts to slow down. As Intel still does not support the trim command, what can I do to get the speed back? Does format & reinstall help? This is a premium product sold at a premium price - I'm very disappointed.

                          • 10. Re: G1 trim support
                            coup

                            From what I understand the only way you are going to get out of the box write performance back is to erase all of the data on every flash chip. To do this you'll have to do a secure erase or something similar.

                             

                            You will then be forced to reinstall everything back onto the drive (although you maybe able to image the drive back onto it).

                             

                            IMO it's a bit of a pointless exercise however because once you have turned over 80GB's (or however big the drive is) worth of data, every flash chip will now contain data and you will be back to square one.

                             

                            Even 'read-erase-write' which is what happens when you attempt to write to a flash chip which already has data on it is quicker than the write speed of a traditional hdd, although that is not the point.

                             

                            There are two options which I know of which 'may' help.  First, CCleaner now has an option to 'wipe free space'.  This, apart from taking a long time, will write data to every flash chip which doesnt have data and then erase them all, apart from obv ones with your data on.

                             

                            Second option is something thats gone around the OCZ forums called Tony Trim.  Not an official TRIM command, but it's something they've mackled up over there.

                             

                            I would do some more research on the OCZ forums on both of these before going any further, as the results are deffinately mixed.

                            • 11. Re: G1 trim support
                              Ourasi

                              Never ever use CCleaner Wipe Free space on the Gen. 1 Intel MLC, never.. All you do is kill IOPS.. There is only one way to get fresh performance back, make an Image of the Drive, and do an HDDErase. The mostly sequential write done by putting back the Image, will NOT put every Cell in used state, and if it's not a completely full drive (never fill the drive up, for endurance the best is to keep it well below 50%), this will buy you another period with optimal performance. When you first learn to use any Image tool, and how to do an HDDErase, this will be an easy 5min job every 6 month or so (or longer depending on the factors mention above, and the small random writes done by the OS and it's logging, turn off whatever you do not need)... There are many guides out there, to do it right.

                               

                              Again, never use any Wipe Free Space tool like CCleaner has, only use HDDErase for this job, end of story..

                              • 12. Re: G1 trim support
                                JohnZS

                                It has been a VERY LONG TIME since the G1 X-25M drives received a firmware update.

                                When are we going to get the firmware which finally adds TRIM support over RAID?

                                Thanks

                                John