6 Replies Latest reply on Dec 18, 2009 7:06 AM by l_d_allan

    Will SSD stayed trimmed with Win-7 and WinXp partitions installed?

    l_d_allan
      I'm wondering if an SSD will stay "trimmed" if I install both Win-7 and an WinXp partitions on the SSD and occasionally use the WinXp partiton. I would like to be able to switch back and forth between the Win-7 and WinXp partitions.

       

      Here is the proposed partition layout:
      * 32gb for Win-7-64-bit
      * 20gb for WinXp-Sp3 Pro 32-bit
      * Remainder of drive for shared data and applications

       

      My understanding is that while I'm using the Win-7 partition, file deletions will cause TRUM to happen.

       

      However, I'm unclear what will happen when I'm using the WinXp partition. My impression is that file deletions won't cause TRIM. My uninformed speculation is that when I boot back to the Win-7 partition and delete files, then the TRIM will cause files in the WinXp partition to be cleaned up.

       

      Or will I be out-smarting myself, and end up with a mess?

       

      Or will some utility from the SSD toolkit (when available) be necessary?
        • 1. Re: Will SSD stayed trimmed with Win-7 and WinXp partitions installed?
          mecoolai

          I am wondering about the same question with multiple partitioned drive, any insight would be helpful.

           

          My current layout (Intel X25-M G2 with newest firmware)

          - Windows 7 Ultimate x64 (45 gb)

          - Mac OSX 10.6.2 (Snow Leopard) 115 gb

          • 2. Re: Will SSD stayed trimmed with Win-7 and WinXp partitions installed?
            dbm

            TRIM only works on the active partition.  The XP partition will not be trimmed, unless you logon to your XP partition and use the Intel Toobox.

            • 3. Re: Will SSD stayed trimmed with Win-7 and WinXp partitions installed?
              dbm

              TRIM does not work on a HFS+ filesystem. One key point is forgotten.  The "TRIM" command is filesystem agnostic,but  the implementation is filesystem dependent and SSD firmware dependent.  This is why the implementation of TRIM has not been standardized in Linux, Unix, or Apple's Operating system.

              • 4. Re: Will SSD stayed trimmed with Win-7 and WinXp partitions installed?
                BruceH

                dbm,

                 

                This is not strictly correct and is in conflict with your post of 9:20p, below.  The OP's speculation is correct under certain circumstances.

                 

                The OP has described three areas of his SSD as follows:

                 

                Here is the proposed partition layout:
                * 32gb for Win-7-64-bit
                * 20gb for WinXp-Sp3 Pro 32-bit
                * Remainder of drive for shared data and applications

                 

                When an NTFS file is deleted by either Win7 or XP, that file is "marked for deletion."  When booted to Win7, in addition to marking a file for deletion that is deleted by the user, the OS sends trim commands associated with that file to the SSD.  The trim commands cause the SSD to physically erase the blocks associated with the deleted file at an off-peak time (a time other than a write-intensive time).  (Note that this process is unnecessary with an HDD because the HDD is capable of over-writing dirty physical blocks.  The SSD cannot overwrite and must first erase and can only then write new data.)

                 

                XP is not trim-aware.  Thus, when booted to XP, a file delete does not automatically send trim commands to the SSD to delete the corresponding dirty blocks.  The salvation, though, is that "dirty" blocks are blocks associated with files that have been marked for deletion.  When run, the Intel SSD Toolbox utility scavanges the file system for files marked for deletion and sends corresponding trim commands to the SSD to erase the dirty blocks.  The Toolbox utility can be scheduled to run while booted to XP, Vista, or Win7.

                 

                Notice that I said "scavanges the file system."  Under XP, Vista, and Win7, the "file system" for these purposes is any NTFS-formatted partition that is visible to the currently-executing OS.  While executing Win7, the file system obviously includes the OP's Win7 partition.  By the OP's definition, his program and data files are part of the file system when booted to either XP or Win7.  If the OP assigns a drive letter to his XP partition under Win7, it too is part of the file system under both XP and Win7.

                 

                The practical answer to the OP's question is therefor "yes."  The SSD can/will stay trimmed with Win7 and WinXP partitions installed.  Since the OP's principal OS is Win7, he simply schedules the Intel SSD Optimizer tool to run daily at a time when he knows that he will be booted to Win7 (e.g., at 3:00a) and checkmark "apply to all SSD drives."  The tool will scavange all files marked for deletion on both the Win7 and XP partitions (e.g., SSD drive C: for Win7 and SSD drive D: for XP) and will assure that the SSD is clean as a whistle on a daily basis.  Note that this is effectively equivalent to running a non-destructive "HDDerase" each day.  Once per day is the finest granularity available with the current (removed) Toolbox.  Otherwise, one could schedule it to run every five minutes, given that it takes only a few seconds to run and that it only erases dirty blocks.  That would be unnecessary, however, given that it takes much more than a single day of ordinary use to cause drive slow-down due to pre-erasure of dirty blocks during write operations, assuming that the drive is not almost full.

                 

                Some have had trouble with the Toolbox; thus Intel's having removed it from download.  I had no problem with the firmware upgrade and have had no problems after several weeks of Toolbox use.  That could be associated with my old Dell D620 laptop, which unfortunately lacks an AHCI option in the bios.

                 

                Also note that use of the Toobox causes Win7 restore points to be deleted.  However, a (partial) workaround is to schedule a restore point immediately following the Toolbox scheduled run time.  In any case, use the Toolbox at your own risk.

                 

                The Toolbox can likely be found with a search.

                 

                Good luck!

                 

                Ref: http://download.intel.com/support/ssdc/hpssd/sb/intel_ssd_toolbox_user_guide.pdf

                 

                Message was edited by: BruceH

                 

                Message was edited by: BruceH

                • 5. Re: Will SSD stayed trimmed with Win-7 and WinXp partitions installed?
                  dbm

                  Bruce,

                    Notice that i said "active" partition.  Most  people that i'm aware will not assign a drive letter to the XP partition if they are in win 7, but if he were to assign a drive letter and delete files from that drive then of course TRIM will be passed and the WIN7 drivers will be executed upon that XP partition that is active in WIN7.   If he deleted a file in XP, then boots in WIN7 and makes the drive the active, then the ONLY way to TRIM the deleted file in the XP partition is to run the SSD toolbox.

                   

                  The OPS question and the correct  response is what I stated. If he has XP then he should boot in WIN XP and use the SSD toolbox when available.

                   

                  The assumption is that because i have a drive bootable with 2 operating systems that when TRIM is excecuted, it will effect the whole drive(i.e. the other non-active partitions).  That is not true. This is why the 2nd poster asked the question regarding mac/win partition on his drive.  I've seen no documents that assert that if 1 partition is trim aware, then the other partition by de-facto becomes trim aware. The implementation of TRIM is a Operating System + filesystem+ SSD firmware dependent action.  And as stated in the manuals in order for an XP partition to be trimmed, the SSD toolbox must be used. Second, as of today TRIM does not and will not work on a HFS+ filesystem. Third, TRIM does not work on a Linux/Unix filesystem by de-facto, your must run utiltity scripts.

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                  • 6. Re: Will SSD stayed trimmed with Win-7 and WinXp partitions installed?
                    l_d_allan

                    Thanks ... very helpful info from several replies. I look forward to the release of the updated toolbox.