1 2 Previous Next 18 Replies Latest reply: Mar 17, 2010 2:47 AM by inflatablemouse RSS

TRIM support for Mac OS X?

legege Community Member
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When are you planing TRIM support for Mac OS X?

  • 1. Re: TRIM support for Mac OS X?
    mikebore Community Member
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    I think you need to address the question to Apple. My understanding (hope) is that Toolbox will enable a manual "Trim" process on Mac drives.

  • 2. Re: TRIM support for Mac OS X?
    dbm Community Member
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    The toolbox doesn't work with the MAC and unfortunately Intel has not produced any tool for the MAC users.  I would hope that they would, but given the windows first mindset, us mac users seem to be low on the totem pole.  I did read somewhere that the Intel folks supporting Linux are working on something.  Also, Apple would have to implement "TRIM" in their OS and I haven't seen any indications of this through the web.

  • 3. Re: TRIM support for Mac OS X?
    mikebore Community Member
    Currently Being Moderated

    My X25 M 80 G2 is a non partitioned disk in bay 2 with 10.6.2 on it.

     

    I have Vista Bootcamp Partition on the disk in bay 1.

     

    I fear you will tell me that I can't install Toolbox in Vista and apply it to the X25 M, because Toolbox won't work on HFS file system.

     

    Looks like the only option at the moment is the Digloyd tool:

     

    http://macperformanceguide.com/Storage-SSD-Reconditioning.html

     

    which I have used successfully once on a non Intel SSD.

  • 4. Re: TRIM support for Mac OS X?
    dbm Community Member
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    Hi mikebore,

      You got it.  The Toolbox will not work on a HFS+ filesystem, even if you installed Toolbox on your Bootcamp drive. Now, if you brave, maybe you can test it and see what happens and let us know, but first backup your SSD.

     

    Hopefully, Apple has "trim" functionality in the work, but I would not hold my breath. It doesn't make sense to have an OS that doesn't recognize the command, but yet sell SSDs which rely on using this command in order to keep up the performance. The next thing to hope for is that Intel will produce the toolbox for the MAC, which is highly unlikely; maybe they can produce a utility script for us mac users to run.

     

    In order to get back near performance of your SSD,  all you have to do is do a secure-erase.  See this link:http://ata.wiki.kernel.org/index.php/ATA_Secure_Erase

     

    I use Linux(Ubuntu) to secure erase my SSDs.   It works in 2 minutes.  Then, I use SuperDuper to restore from my HD 7200 Western Digital, which I use to backup my SSD.  The other option is to use HDerase which i'm not familiar with.

  • 5. Re: TRIM support for Mac OS X?
    mikebore Community Member
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    Thanks!

     

    Just puzzling why Diglloyd's recommendation isn't just a zero erase, as you suggest. He seems to think there is more to it.

     

    Any comment on his article?

  • 6. Re: TRIM support for Mac OS X?
    dbm Community Member
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    I read his article. Using "diskutility" by itself will not work because it uses zeros.  A secure erase uses "1s" which means that it baslically writes to the whole disk.  He is using DiskTester which writes the "1s", then he uses diskutility to  erase, then restore.  I not williing to test to see if it works, but I do know using hdparm to secure erase the disk does the job. It is baslically 1 command vs 3 commands(i.e. diskutility to erase, then write 1s to fill up drive, then diskutility to erase again)

  • 7. Re: TRIM support for Mac OS X?
    r_smith Community Member
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    The issue here is not "How can I deal with there being no TRIM tool for OS X, or OS-level support of an automated variety?" It's not "What clunky work-arounds can I employ since Intel hasn't made available a way to implement the command in OS X?"

     

    The issue here is "When is Intel going to support TRIM in OS X?"

  • 8. Re: TRIM support for Mac OS X?
    r_smith Community Member
    Currently Being Moderated

    I should mention that a number of Mac users at my university including myself are holding off purchasing Intel SSDs until an OS X Trim utility or other form of support is made available.

     

    We would love to buy these products once their full level of functionality is supported.

  • 9. Re: TRIM support for Mac OS X?
    dbm Community Member
    Currently Being Moderated

    r_smith,

      Your blame is partially mis-blamed. Yes. Intel would need to support the HFS filesystem, but it is Apple that must implement the "trim" command in their driver as Microsoft has done.  The SSD will not TRIM unless the OS passes the command or unless Intel makes a utility to TRIM the SSD as they have done XP and VISTA which do not support TRIM at the OS level. So the question is when is Apple going to support TRIM in OSX.  The Intel SSD might be already be able to handle the HFS filesystem, but I doubt it.  NO SSD vendor has guranteed OSX trim capability that i'm aware of.

  • 10. Re: TRIM support for Mac OS X?
    r_smith Community Member
    Currently Being Moderated

    dbm wrote:


    ....unless Intel makes a utility to TRIM the SSD as they have done XP and VISTA which do not support TRIM at the OS level.

    OS-level support is ideal, but not the acceptable minimum. The utility  would definitely be an acceptable minimal support solution.

     

    dbm wrote:


    So the question is when is Apple going to support TRIM in OSX.

    After Intel provides a utility, certainly. Apple is not the device manufacturer. It seems to me that the primary responsibility rests with the manufacturer of a product to support that product in popular operating systems. Of course, it's also Apple's responsibility to cooperate with device makers such as Intel.

     

    NO SSD vendor has guranteed OSX trim capability that i'm aware of.

    TRIM functionality is critical for desktop SSD use in my opinion. If it's offered in Windows, it should be offered in OS X, at least in the form of a utility. I believe it is Intel's best interest, as well as the computing community, to release an OS X utility, at least until it can work with Apple to get OS-level support.

  • 11. Re: TRIM support for Mac OS X?
    mikebore Community Member
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    dbm wrote:

     

    I read his article. Using "diskutility" by itself will not work because it uses zeros.  A secure erase uses "1s" which means that it baslically writes to the whole disk.  He is using DiskTester which writes the "1s", then he uses diskutility to  erase, then restore.  I not williing to test to see if it works, but I do know using hdparm to secure erase the disk does the job. It is baslically 1 command vs 3 commands(i.e. diskutility to erase, then write 1s to fill up drive, then diskutility to erase again)

     

    Thanks, sorry for delay in replying!

     

    So the diglloyd/Disktester method is sound but less convenient than hdparm?

     

    I have used the Disktester successfully, and while it may be less convenient, I am on more familiar territory, so will probably stick with it for now.

     

    [url=http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?&t=841182]HERE [/url]is another method which sounds close yours.

  • 12. Re: TRIM support for Mac OS X?
    mikebore Community Member
    Currently Being Moderated

    Actually I think I have just realised a better way, for me.

     

    1. Clone mac boot to external.

    2. Boot from my mac utilities drive

    3. Format mac boot drive as NTFS (can do as I have NTFS for Mac installed, but FAT 32 would have worked)

    4. Boot to Vista Bootcamp partition

    5. Run Toolbox

    6. Boot to Mac Utilities drive.

    7. Format mac boot drive back to GUID/HFS+

    8. Clone back from external

     

    I have just done it and my random write performance (Quickbench) which had dropped to about 40% of new is recovered.

     

    Actually what I just did also included a Disktester recondition as well, but just after doing it I realised I could have done the above so did that as well. But next time I will skip Disktester obviously.

     

    I could probably have gone straight from step 1 to step 3 as I have MacDrive in Vista so it sees the mac drives.

     

    Any comment? snags I have missed?

  • 13. Re: TRIM support for Mac OS X?
    r_smith Community Member
    Currently Being Moderated

    That's a lot of steps and it requires the purchase and installation of a second operating system. It's not really support for OS X, but rather a way to bypass OS X and use Windows to run TRIM. It also requires a third-party hack (NTFS for OS X).

     

    I think this series of steps underscores the great importance of Intel releasing even a simple command-line OS X utility for TRIM.

  • 14. Re: TRIM support for Mac OS X?
    mikebore Community Member
    Currently Being Moderated

    I agree. Macs aren't ready for SSD and if I could turn the clock back I wouldn't have jumped on the SSD bandwagon until some proper support from either Apple or Intel is available.

     

    That said the interim workarounds aren't quite as bad as they appear when you write them down step by step. NTFS for Mac is not essential. I formatted to NTFS because I could. I could have formatted to FAT and it Windows would have seen it. The Disktester option doesn't require a second OS and can be done all within OSX.

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