9 Replies Latest reply on May 18, 2016 11:16 AM by ASM

    RFE: NUC 5i5RYH requires manually setting DRAM timings

    ASM

      I am one of the customers that bought DDR-2133 SODIMMs because the NUC 5i5RY*'s memory compatibility page implied that they would work.  That page has now been corrected.

       

      It's very frustrating to find and then reenter proper timings for the DDR-2133 SODIMMS whenever the BIOS is reset.

       

      I am requesting an enhancement to the Visual BIOS memory settings page:

      • The "automatic" profile should always select the highest speed XMP profile less than or equal to 1866 or 1600 or whatever is reasonably safe for the SKU.
      • When the "manual" profile is selected and whenever the "Memory Multiplier" is changed it should use the XMP profiles to repopulate the default timings for that multiplier .

       

      The way the BIOS appears to work now is when you switch to "manual" the timings are simply the current safe timings -- most likely DDR3-1600 safe boot timings.  This is unhelpful.

       

      Please fix.

       

      timings.png

        • 1. Re: RFE: NUC 5i5RYH requires manually setting DRAM timings
          hansb_intel

          Hello ASM,

           

          Thank you for reporting this, I’ll send this case to the engineers for them to review this issue.

          • 2. Re: RFE: NUC 5i5RYH requires manually setting DRAM timings
            hansb_intel

            Hello ASM,

             

            The engineers have checked your issue and this is what they found:

             

            The memory that is being used is not compatible and will not be supported. You may reference this page here:

            http://www.intel.com/support/motherboards/desktop/sb/CS-034982.htm?wapkw=nuc5i5ryh+memory

             

            The fastest memory it will support is 1866. The system does not know how to talk to the 2133 memory correctly, so no settings will be saved and it will not run correctly. This is expected and normal behavior if you are not using the correct memory.

             

            There is no problem with his unit other than the wrong speed of memory. This can be found on the page above as well as in the TPS.

             

            Let us know if you have any other questions.

            • 3. Re: RFE: NUC 5i5RYH requires manually setting DRAM timings
              ASM

              This answer is unsatisfactory and clearly wasn't investigated by an engineer.

               

              All you're telling me is that the table no longer indicates that 2133 modules are supported.  I know that already, as does everyone else who bought 2133 modules that were listed on the compatibility page when the NUC was first available.  That page was later edited to remove the modules.

               

              Have an actual engineer re-read my RFE and provide an answer that actually matches the question.

               

              This will help you reject any boilerplate answers by your engineers:


              Modern RAM modules have EEPROMs that are read by the SMBUS at boot time.

               

              The EEPROMs contain a table of valid settings for the RAM module.

               

              There is no issue with the "system not being able to talk to" the DIMM via the SMBUS.

               

              See: Serial presence detect - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

               

              I repeat my RFE:

              1. read the first RAM module's SPD ROM
              2. if "auto" is selected don't boot at a speed that is beyond the NUC's specifications
              3. if "manual" is selected or the memory multiplier is changed then walk through the SPD ROM and find the appropriate timing setting in the table.

               

              As you can see, the RAM in my NUC 5i5RYH can be queried via the SMBUS and reports many acceptable timings:

              jedec.png

               

              I'm simply asking Intel to fix the BIOS -- especially since Intel originally listed various 2133 modules as being supported.

               

              Thanks.

              • 4. Re: RFE: NUC 5i5RYH requires manually setting DRAM timings
                Intel_Paul

                ASM,

                 

                Thanks for all the detail and your questions. I can understand that you do not like the answer that has been given. I work in Support Engineering and I have the specific answer to this issue. The processor in your unit does not support 2133 memory. At one point in time there may have been something referring to that on our support pages, but any reference to that has been removed due to the compatibility of that specific processor. This is not a feature we can change or make work in a different fashion. We design our products to work in as broad of a range of needs as possible but we cant design products that work in every instance for every end purpose. We also update our support documentation as new information is made available for our products. So as of this point in time, and based on all available information, your NUC will not support 2133 memory.

                 

                Paul

                Intel Customer Support

                Support Engineer - NUC / Desktop Boards

                • 5. Re: RFE: NUC 5i5RYH requires manually setting DRAM timings
                  dougho

                  Paul - I am new to this thread but not new to NUCs and compatible memory.  It is frustrating to people such as myself why models of NUC cannot use latest memory which has higher speed capability but just use the lower speed timings, as non-NUC Intel computers have done for long time.  That is how memory modules have been designed and sold for very long time.  In other words why can't 2133 memory (which has valid JEDEC SPD tables for lower speeds) run in NUC at speed such as 1866?  Your answer is sort of like saying that a USB3 device can't be plugged into a USB2 socket, or that you can't use a high current capable power supply for some lower current device, etc.

                  Note: I do not have that specific NUC model nor that specific speed memory - I am just asking based on the question you seem to be answering about Auto speed setting not letting 2133 memory work in machine spec'd for 1833.  In my own case when I thought that I encountered similar issue on older model of NUC, the issue was actually related to memory "density" (typically the number of chips per side of memory module) which is a known situation for the NUC and presumably an "electrical" limitation (as opposed to JEDEC timing table issue).

                  • 6. Re: RFE: NUC 5i5RYH requires manually setting DRAM timings
                    ASM

                    ^^^^^ THIS! ^^^^^

                     

                    @dougho, states it more clearly than I did.

                    • 7. Re: RFE: NUC 5i5RYH requires manually setting DRAM timings
                      ASM

                      Was this issue ever resolved?

                       

                      The latest Skylake NUC (Skull Canyon) can sense and adjust to a SODIMMs declared XMP/SPD timings.

                       

                      This is a feature from 1997. 

                       

                      Why can't my Broadwell NUC sense RAM timings?

                      • 8. Re: RFE: NUC 5i5RYH requires manually setting DRAM timings
                        ivanu_intel

                        Please see this processor Memory Types at the following link:

                        Intel® Core™ i5-5250U Processor (3M Cache, up to 2.70 GHz) Specifications

                         

                        Basically the processor in the Intel® NUC5i3RY/NUC5i5RY supports DDR3L-1333/1600 1.35V SO-DIMM, memories running above those specifications are not supported and if you try to run the system at 2133MHz the system will be damaged sooner or later.

                         

                        You can see the compatible memories for this unit here:

                        System Memory for Intel® NUC Kit NUC5i3RY/NUC5i5RY

                        • 9. Re: RFE: NUC 5i5RYH requires manually setting DRAM timings
                          ASM

                          Huh, that's an incorrect answer.

                           

                          The point of SPD/XMP is to advertise the acceptable timings for the memory module.

                           

                          The memory modules' SPD/XMP info lists proper timings across a wide range of speeds 1333, 1600, 1866, etc.

                           

                          The BIOS should be selecting what it can support instead of forcing a non-technical user to fill in a dozen esoteric timing numbers.

                           

                          Furthermore, the SO-DIMMs I purchased were listed by Intel as being compatible and then stealth-edited out of the compatibility list.

                           

                          Again, your answer is unhelpful and incorrect.

                           

                          Please fix the BIOS like you did for Skylake.