13 Replies Latest reply on May 8, 2015 5:17 AM by dougho

    Can't use mouse/kb in VisualBIOS from Windows

    dougw03

      Hello,


      I have fastboot and secureboot enabled on my NUC5i3RYK. Before I set these, I was able to access the UEFI without any issues by pressing f2 at startup. I read online about how to access the UEFI from Windows by going to Updates and rebooting in advanced mode and accessing the UEFI through the GUI. When I do this however, I cannot use my mouse or keyboard in the UEFI. I'm on the latest April BIOS release. Any ideas how to get around this?

        • 1. Re: Can't use mouse/kb in VisualBIOS from Windows
          allan_intel

          The keyboard and mouse when fast boot and Secure boot are enabled will not be available until after operating system boot.

           

          Allan.

          • 2. Re: Can't use mouse/kb in VisualBIOS from Windows
            dougw03

            So how do I access the UEFI w/FastBoot and SecureBoot enabled if I don't have time to press F2 at boot? This was the only link I could find to get to UEFI http://www.thewindowsclub.com/access-uefi-firmware-settings-windows-8-1

             

            Is there an Intel utility that lets you adjust UEFI settings in Windows? My MSI motherboard has this feature.

            • 3. Re: Can't use mouse/kb in VisualBIOS from Windows
              allan_intel

              Intel does not offer a way to adjust UEFI settings in windows.

              See the following information to access BIOS settings with power button:

              http://downloadmirror.intel.com/24565/eng/NUC5i5RYB_NUC5i3RYB_TechProdSpec01.pdf

              See page 62

              Using the link you posted previously will help accessing UEFI BIOS: http://www.thewindowsclub.com/access-uefi-firmware-settings-windows-8-1

               

              Allan.

              • 4. Re: Can't use mouse/kb in VisualBIOS from Windows
                dougw03

                Hello Allan,

                 

                Thank you for the information on accessing BIOS with the power button.

                 

                With regards to the link I posted previously...this goes back to my original issue. When I use this method to access the UEFI, the mouse and keyboard do NOT work. The mouse and keyboard work when I boot directly into UEFI before Windows but if I reboot from windows using that aforementioned method, the mouse and keyboard do not work and I cannot do anything in the UEFI. I think this is a bug as I've tried different keyboards and had no luck. Can you try reproducing the issue? I am using a NUC5i3RYK with a das keyboard 4 professional and logitech performance MX mouse. I also tried a generic Logitech USB keyboard and it also didn't work.

                • 5. Re: Can't use mouse/kb in VisualBIOS from Windows
                  allan_intel

                  I have enabled fast boot and tried to access BIOS with windows recovery options, and indeed I was not able to use the keyboard and mouse. This is not a problem with the NUC. It has been intended to work that way.

                  Allan.

                  • 6. Re: Can't use mouse/kb in VisualBIOS from Windows
                    dougw03

                    Hi Allan,


                    Can you explain the logic behind this? I would prefer to be able to access the UEFI without having to mess around with sequencing the power button. The UEFI is useless without a keyboard/mouse or any sort of control.

                     

                    Doug

                    • 7. Re: Can't use mouse/kb in VisualBIOS from Windows
                      dougho

                      The point is that FastBoot was never meant to allow accessing BIOS.  Choose one or the other, not both.  If you want both, you have to accept using a special method (such as power button) before accessing BIOS.  It has been this way since Intel first implemented FastBoot - not really new to NUC nor Visual BIOS.

                      • 8. Re: Can't use mouse/kb in VisualBIOS from Windows
                        dougw03

                        I agree about Fastboot. This is also exactly why MS added provisions into Windows to be able to access the UEFI by rebooting directly to the UEFI.

                         

                        Have you ever used a non-Intel motherboard PC with UEFI? Most vendors offer a way to configure the UEFI from within Windows. If Intel is not going to provide a Windows UEFI configuration tool, then they should at least support rebooting to UEFI through Windows instead of having to try messing around with the power button.


                        • 9. Re: Can't use mouse/kb in VisualBIOS from Windows
                          dougho

                          I think you are confusing Intel's specific "Fastboot" with the idea of booting fast.  I am not familiar with other vendors, but I think Microsoft's added provision that I am well aware of is to get into the BIOS when the sequence is just occurring so fast that you can't get the key pressed (presumably it just does something like setting a flag that BIOS checks during next boot).  Intel's Fastboot options are different - in addition to the general idea of booting fast (like all recent/modern PCs), Intel allowed a few more specific ways to make it even faster.  One of those ways is to disallow use of USB keyboard/mouse until after a modern OS with appropriate device drivers is loaded.  That is presumably fine for many of their users and perhaps some important customer they may have implemented it for.  But they also know that people like you might want to enable that option and still be able to get into UEFI once in awhile.  Since jumpers are mostly gone, they allow that through something like the power button.

                          Please consider not enabling that particular Fastboot (the option in Intel's BIOS) if it bothers you.  I think you will find that the PC still boots very fast as desired.  That's what I do, since the boot seems fast enough for me.  When it first came out years ago, I tried the options - video, optical, and USB kb/mouse.  For awhile they may have helped speed things up a tiny bit.  But I no longer change them from the defaults and I still boot quite fast.

                          • 10. Re: Can't use mouse/kb in VisualBIOS from Windows
                            dougw03

                            I think you're confused about "FastBoot." Fastboot is not proprietary to Intel and is a feature of UEFI compatible hardware and the Windows 8 operating system (see Windows 8: Fast Boot - Oliver's Blog - Site Home - MSDN Blogs). You are correct in that FastBoot disables USB devices until the OS boots; however, when you use the method I posted to get to the UEFI through Windows, the motherboard is supposed to leave FastBoot enabled, but allow USB devices to function for the session.

                             

                            I have another machine with a MSI motherboard with FastBoot enabled and not only am I able to get to the UEFI and use my USB keyboard/mouse with the aforementioned method, but also can configure my UEFI directly in Windows through a GUI. This is clearly a bug since it works with other motherboards and the same USB keyboard/mouse and Intel just does not want to address it.

                            • 11. Re: Can't use mouse/kb in VisualBIOS from Windows
                              dougho

                              I could be confused but I don't think so.  Forget about words "Fast Boot" for now.  Intel BIOS has features which were originally called HyperBoot which can speed up any boot (regardless of Windows 8 or some other modern OS).  They are options in BIOS settings to disable things like USB and video initialization.  By disable USB, they really mean it - it is disabled until a modern OS (with drivers) is booted.  Visual BIOS is not an OS, so to use the kb/mouse there you can't leave the USB disabled.  Windows 8 is an OS, but the steps Windows 8 offers to get to UEFI settings is just a convenience to tell the BIOS to go there at the restart (since boot can/should be fast without slowing down for some F2 keypress to be detected - in the past there was often a "jumper" to do that, or a "Back to BIOS button" on enthusiast Intel motherboards).  Intel is not MSI - MSI (or the provider of their BIOS) may happen to provide some OS-based program to manipulate UEFI BIOS settings - Intel may choose not to (like you said) - it does not mean it is an Intel "bug" (of course it could be helpful if Intel might initialize the USB for that specific situation)  Now back to Windows 8 and those "Fast Boot" words - nothing in the blog post you wrote about had to do with Intel's specific settings (such as disable USB and video initialization).  It describes the concept of a faster boot experience, mainly they are talking about a "boot from hibernation" type feature.  My Intel NUC does that - the elapsed time from pressing power button to desktop on Windows 8.1 is around a dozen seconds, with the mouse cursor being a spinning blue circle for 1-2 seconds after that.  But it happens regardless of those Intel-specific "fast" settings in the BIOS (of course speed is also due to fast SSD).

                              P.S.  If I say something wrong about MSI, I apologize.  I am not familiar with them.

                              • 12. Re: Can't use mouse/kb in VisualBIOS from Windows
                                dougw03

                                I understand what you're saying, but if Intel BIOS has this "HyperBoot" feature then I should be able to disable it, and only enable Windows 8 Fast Boot. In the VisualBIOS I did not see any settings for HyperBoot but only "Fast Boot".

                                 

                                The "bug" I am referring to is not the fact that Intel does not provide a Windows GUI, but rather the fact that I can't use my keyboard/mouse when I tell Windows to reboot to UEFI. As I mentioned, with other vendor's hardware this is not a problem, and thus I believe it top be something Intel is doing wrong in their implementation of FastBoot, or there is a setting buried in the UEFI that I need to change.

                                 

                                Lastly, I referred you to the MSDN post because you said "Intel's specific "Fastboot"" in your last post and it seems now based on your last post that you were referring to "Hyper Boot."

                                 

                                So to reiterate, I am looking for a way to have Windows 8 Fast Boot enabled while also being able to reboot to UEFI and use my keyboard/mouse (without disabling Fast Boot) from the stock feature in the Windows 8 menu. Unless there is a setting I am missing to disable HyperBoot or whatever is causing the USB to be disabled, there is a bug in Intel's implementation of the Windows 8 Fast Boot feature.

                                • 13. Re: Can't use mouse/kb in VisualBIOS from Windows
                                  dougho

                                  I think this will be my last post in the thread.  Just Don't enable the USB Optimization in Intel's BIOS.  The Windows 8 feature described in that MSDN post should still be enabled by default, and can be toggled in Control Panel-Power Options-Choose what the power buttons do-Shutdown settings-Turn on fast startup (recommended) - unless you have disabled Hibernation (which can be re-enabled using command line powercfg /hibernate on).  It is not the same as BIOS setting by Intel (called Fastboot in their 2008 fastboot-bios-paper.pdf).  It could be argued that Intel should somehow disable USB Optimization if they end up in their Visual BIOS without a PS/2 keyboard/mouse such as after choosing UEFI firmware settings described at places such as Designing for PCs that boot faster than ever before - Building Windows 8 - Site Home - MSDN Blogs, but if you prefer to enable USB Optimization just use Intel's other ways to disable USB Optimization/enter BIOS such as their Power Button Menu.  I do not have experience with other vendor's hardware, so I don't know if their BIOS options are disabling USB initialization or just other things such as video.