1 2 Previous Next 20 Replies Latest reply on Dec 18, 2014 9:34 PM by colabi

    Dedison, Hooking Edison to Anything voids warranty

    colabi

      So my edison ( that was formerly functioning properly after a lot of effort to match the working firmware with working mraa,etc ) started to overheat.  And then it couldn't be connected to.  And then anytime it powered on it would get VERY HOT.  It is non functional.

       

      Interacting with Intel Warranty Customer Support, I was told that because I attached the Edison to another product (in this case the Sparkfun Battery Board/GPIO board that is co-marketed with Intel) I had voided the warranty.  I made the point that Edison has to be attached to something else.  That is it's destiny.  Inserting their CPU's intel a motherboard under that logic would also void the warranty.

       

      So are we to understand that the only non warranty voiding use of Edison is to place it on a table and hope that it will be powered by divine intervention?  Should we place it near, but not attached to whatever product we are developing and hope that something happens?  Exactly how is this a strategy for building a community around this?

        • 1. Re: Dedison, Hooking Edison to Anything voids warranty
          deium

          colabi,

          First off, sorry to hear of your woes.  I'll start and say that I am not Intel and that I have been dealing with tech since 1990.

          Even back in 1990, if a user is handling the electronic component and electrostatic discharge (ESD) fries the chip, that was the users responsibility.

          Warranties are against a manufacture's faults and defects of their workmanship.  If it isn't a fault of the module, why would the bill then go to Intel?

          If the Edison was injured as a direct result of the Sparkfun Battery Block, then your recourse should probably be with Sparkfun.

          Companies, even if they would be co-marketing together, they are still separate entities with separate duties and responsibilities.

           

          Second, blown chips is an inherent part of Making - it comes from pushing the bounds of what is known, and by experimenting, and it takes failures to have successes.

          • 2. Re: Dedison, Hooking Edison to Anything voids warranty
            colabi

            I think you're missing the point.  If it's my fault, fine.  They can evaluate the unit and come to that conclusion. Their conclusion right now  is that because it was attached to anything, it is inherently not their fault.  That's a fantastic position to have as it essentially means using the product voids the warranty.  Let that sink in.  This is their default position in dealing with customers.  You have used it therefore it wasn't anything we did

             

            I've been playing with electronics since before 1990.  And I've blown plenty of things.  But when they just die on you and you aren't doing anything, it's usually the component.

            • 3. Re: Dedison, Hooking Edison to Anything voids warranty
              deium

              colabi

              I really didn't miss your point at all.

              Just a couple of questions?

              1) Was the Edison module at any point powered by the battery block?

              2) if so, did you cover the micro USB port with electrical tape before connecting and powering up?

              3) What has Sparkfun said on the matter?

              • 4. Re: Dedison, Hooking Edison to Anything voids warranty
                colabi

                It was powered by the battery block. And it ran successfully for a while.  And all this was doing was blinking an led and connecting to the internet to do it.  But I'd actually like to have Intel add their 2 cents to this and clarify this point ( since part of the cost of an Edison should be their support):

                 

                There is literally nothing that can be done to an Edison that doesn't assume the user destroyed it. You literally can't even verify that it works without voiding the warranty.  That is, unless you use their development board alone.

                 

                There are MANY alternatives.  And for embedded computing 50 bucks is a lot for a product solution.  If you want a lower power BT micro controller, nrf51822.  RPI is being micronized.  And next quarter Ingenic's Newton2 (1ghz,wifi/bt,9dof motion,graphics,cam interface) will be avail.  All are cheaper app solutions and are just the tip of what will happen.  So if you can't depend on Intel for support, where is the value?

                • 5. Re: Dedison, Hooking Edison to Anything voids warranty
                  deium

                  colabi,

                  I am still trying to get through this with you.  The tape over the usb port on the battery block to ensure the battery does not short the Edison is a key factor for you.  Whether or not Sparkfun included those instructions in the box, or whether it came with the tape on it already is important to note.  I'll agree support is a necessary component to feel satisfied, but if it was me, I'd still be asking Sparkfun - especially if they did not give any warnings in their package about their battery block shorting.   (Kinda like the coffee that had no label that it was too hot, regardless of how obvious, still won)

                   

                  A guy takes his duck to the vet, says "I think it's dying, can you help?".  It being already too late the vet replies "It's dead, that will be 40 bucks."   The guy dismayed asked, "Are you sure, you haven't done anything yet?"  So the vet called in his cat.  The cat looked the duck from head to toe, meowed and walked away.  The vet called in his dog.  The Labrador retriever sniffed the duck, barked and walked out.  The vet said "Yes, it's dead, that will be $150".  The guy says "$150? a minute ago you said 40".  The vet replied, "That was before the cat scan and the lab report"

                   

                  Dell, HP and many others "co-market" with the Intel Inside logo.  If the board causes the other components to go bad, it is the Dells and HPs that have to provide first responder support.  If you have not sought a solution through sparkfun, the provider of the board that powered the module, you may be missing your solution by simply not going through the correct first channels.  Please let me know what sparkfun has to say - I was pondering their battery block myself.

                  • 6. Re: Dedison, Hooking Edison to Anything voids warranty
                    colabi

                    That's a cute joke.  And it also brings to mind that coming to a conclusions about a hardware problem over mail or forum thread is like diagnosing an illness without a medical workup..  This wouldn't be an issue if they said, 'ship it to us and we'll evaluate it'.  Their approach is, 'this is not our fault if you attached it to anything.'  In this world they *could* ship you a dead unit and if you attached it to something, the problem is in your hands.  They *could* have bad units that fail, but since you attached it to anything it's your problem.  No, the micro wasn't taped as it was also plugged in.  And it's also still functioning.

                     

                    At any rate, I'm moving on from Edison.  It's soaked up too much energy.  I would suggest that Intel either uses their margins to beef up support.  Or drop the price so burn out, regardless of cause, isn't worth the energy of triggering their support. 20 bucks should do it.   That, or enable the PowerVR and Camera that would make it more functional. 


                    Otellini once said they missed the boat on iPhone.  And unless they do what they really don't want to do - make low margin chips - they'll miss IoT too.

                    • 7. Re: Dedison, Hooking Edison to Anything voids warranty
                      deium

                      colabi, that battery block has a known issue with potential shorting. Possibly what happened to yours.  If you don't see that that is Sparkfun's design, their board and possibly your solution to contact Sparkfun on this for not putting notice / warning with their product ... I think you will give in without ever pursuing a solution that could have been yours.  I do hope you pursue it.

                      I will also say that as far as other chips, that although I could get an 8 bit MPU for sub $10, I think that by the time I added all the components included with Edison I'd be way over cost.  The Edison advantage is familiar x86 native language coding in a powerful resource rich small format.

                      • 8. Re: Dedison, Hooking Edison to Anything voids warranty
                        jwestervelt

                        colabi wrote:


                        Otellini once said they missed the boat on iPhone.  And unless they do what they really don't want to do - make low margin chips - they'll miss IoT too.

                        As a die-hard MCU fan who has participated in many IoT projects, I wouldn't say that they are in any danger of missing out on the IoT market.  I can't imagine what the margin is on the Edison, but trying to build something comparable will cost an individual considerably more than what Intel is asking for the Edison+Breakout board... and if you want it to be as small as the Edison, you'll be investing a considerable amount of time designing the thing.

                         

                        That said, I feel that there is a bit of derp in the project at the moment.  Enough people have complained about the power that it is concerning.  If my devices should ever fail in a similar manner, i'll be doing all the investigative work myself to find out what is busted.  The good news is that the Edison module itself is likely fine, but there is something horribly amiss with the Breakout and Arduino boards.

                        • 9. Re: Dedison, Hooking Edison to Anything voids warranty
                          colabi

                          There are advantages.  I'm not saying there aren't.  However, once you factor in what exactly you're targeting a lot of those advantages start disappearing.  A lot of CPU but without Camera/GPU?  Can't be a vision board.  Forget running a real quad copter with camera or you'll have to add another processor anyway.  A lot of CPU aimed at gpio?  You probably could do with smaller micro controller drawing less power and connect it via BT to something that speaks to the internet but also is powered.  With things like mbed on the other side, it's easier to dev and rollout on the other hardware.

                           

                          As for the battery, I may follow up with Sparkfun.  However, the point is this is POSSIBLY what happened to me.  But since Intel's position is clear it doesn't really matter.  Sparkfun may blame intel.  Intel may blame spark fun.  And every bit of time put down this path is time that could be put towards a more app appropriate solution.  But my position is still simple: Intel, do you really want to adopt a position with the community that using the product voids the warranty?  Without conversation?  Without checking out the hardware?  That the customer is defacto at fault?  I would love for them to enter the conversation and say, 'Yah.  That doesn't really make sense.  Let's revisit this policy to make this thing more successful and build audience'. 

                           

                          That is after all why I placed a chip on a more expensive product with their name on it.  Keep in mind the module alone is half the price of a Nexus Player.

                          • 10. Re: Dedison, Hooking Edison to Anything voids warranty
                            deium

                            jwestervelt, The Sparkfun battery layer was shipped without tape over the microUSB port and the Edison module likely was the victim of a known shorting issue.  Sparkfun did not package it with any warnings of their known issue.  I would like to know what Sparkfun's stand is on this.  In my opinion Sparkfun should replace the Edison module at least.

                            • 11. Re: Dedison, Hooking Edison to Anything voids warranty
                              colabi

                              i reached out to spark fun.  but this particular issue seems to happen if the battery block is combined with the base block.  that wasn't the case and a short of this nature isn't likely as the battery wires aren't in contact with anything on the underside (it sat on the GPIO block and had nothing to come in contact with)

                              • 12. Re: Dedison, Hooking Edison to Anything voids warranty
                                deium

                                colabi, as you wish, the sparkfun catalog page links to the battery block tutorial.  It clearly now shows the Potential Short! in huge letters approx. 70%  down the page.  Now from how I view that photo unless you removed the battery from the battery block it would be an issue with any usage of the block.  (funny to note they haven't any stock on the base block - I've never seen anyone with them yet)

                                SparkFun Blocks for Intel Edison - Battery Block - learn.sparkfun.com

                                SparkFun Block for Intel® Edison - Base - DEV-13045 - SparkFun Electronics

                                • 13. Re: Dedison, Hooking Edison to Anything voids warranty
                                  colabi

                                  i did see these notes.  and possibly this could have happened, even though the distance is relatively large (no micro usb for it to contact in this config).  so we'll see what they have to say as they are the only side of the conversation that seems interested in speaking. 

                                  • 14. Re: Dedison, Hooking Edison to Anything voids warranty
                                    jwestervelt

                                    deium wrote:

                                     

                                    jwestervelt, The Sparkfun battery layer was shipped without tape over the microUSB port and the Edison module likely was the victim of a known shorting issue.  Sparkfun did not package it with any warnings of their known issue.  I would like to know what Sparkfun's stand is on this.  In my opinion Sparkfun should replace the Edison module at least.

                                    I am well aware of that issue.  But there have been a few cases of the Breakout/Arduino boards shorting to ground on the Vin pins.  No way to know for certain that the OP did not run into this same issue. 

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