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15. Re: How best proceed with overheating i7-4790K?
Broxh Sep 3, 2014 9:02 PM (in response to Broxh)I have remounted the cooler, with new thermal paste and dropped load temps under prime95 to 70-85 depending on radiator fan speeds. Idle is still a little high at 35-40C with a room temp of 25
I am pretty sure I just mounted it poorly the first install, but it could be the new thermal paste.
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16. Re: How best proceed with overheating i7-4790K?
boolybooly Sep 4, 2014 11:50 AM (in response to tmsimmon)Good point Allan, for the tests below using the Noctua, RAM is set to DDR1600 and 1.5v, timings are set to 11,13,13, 31 by the mobo.
tmsimmon wrote:
what is the voltage set too?
You in Manual mode or Adaptive mode?
It is adaptive with offset zero according to CPUz and BIOS. CPUz text report on justpasteit.
BIOS settings are all AUTO but show the following values in BIOS.
CPU VCORE 1.191v,
CPU VRIN External Override 1.8v
CPU Graphics 1.0v
CPU Ring Voltage 1.050v
CPU System Agent 0.000v (ditto all offsets and I/O Analog and Digital, also zero)
I checked CPUz output when actively running OCCT and it stated "Core Voltage" was 1.213v.
I then checked the OCCT output and strangely it logged "CPU VCORE" as 1.63v at the same time that CPUz was reporting 1.213v.
I dont understand how this is happening and not entirely sure what it means. On my other PC (QX9650) these two readings correspond with each other. Can anyone explain why these two readings would be different on a Haswell i7 4790K?
These are the OCCT temps for a 5 min test at the same DDR1600 1.5v settings, cooled by the Noctua NH-L12 (the Intel HS/F would not run this without thermal shut down due to exceeding 85°C). Temps peak at 78-79°C even with the Noctua.
Running Prime95 small FFT with "core temp" running showed three cores maximising at 100°C before being shut down manually to prevent system shutdown.
So there is still apparently serious overheating despite more than adequate cooling from the Noctua which improves on the performance of the Intel stock cooler. (wrt Broxh's experience, in my case the Intel cooler was tested and then reseated once just to be sure prior to fitting the Noctua, both contact patterns were good for the Intel and performance consistent so it provides a good comparison to indicate the Noctua is working within spec.)
I dont understand the OCCT "CPU VCORE" reading 1.63v.
EDIT I tried setting the BIOS power draw limiter to 86w (from auto with displayed value 88w) and it made a huge difference to top temps but caused a lot of CPU frequency changes when under load, varying from 4 to 4.4 GHz but more often less than 4.4 GHz. Transient power draws reached up to 220w in Core Temp monitor even at this setting. Should that be happening ?
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17. Re: How best proceed with overheating i7-4790K?
TAS3086 Sep 5, 2014 1:15 PM (in response to boolybooly)I have an AsRock Z97 Extreme6 and am experiencing the same temp variations. Up to 99C under stress with no turbo, or overclocking. 35C at idle, and immediate jump to 47C if starting most anything small. Any suggestions? At what temp should I be concerned?
Were should I go to find out a solution to the problem?
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18. Re: How best proceed with overheating i7-4790K?
boolybooly Sep 5, 2014 3:54 PM (in response to TAS3086)I have been working on this all day TAS3086 and the best move I made was to set the power limiter in the (Gigabyte F4 for Z97MX-Gaming-5) BIOS to 86W. The second best move was to set the vCore to "normal" setting for adaptive function and then set a negative offset of 0.060v.
What this does is to hobble the turbo and force power regulators not to pour power into the CPU and drops the default power levels a bit.
But its definitely not satisfactory. You can see from this comparison benching Prime95 small FFT test (DDR1600, 1.5v), on the left there is a negative offset but no power limit is set and on the right a power limit of 86W is active. Compare the Watts drawn and they drop from 142W > 89.9W and the temps drop from 95°C to 72°C but compare the CPU frequency and turbo is not active on the right. So the conclusion is that for some reason this CPU is pumping out too much heat for the frequency it is reaching and the processing it is doing because it is using too much power to do it.
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19. Re: How best proceed with overheating i7-4790K?
boolybooly Sep 15, 2014 3:16 AM (in response to boolybooly)Update : I contacted Gigabyte support to ask whether the overheating was a generic problem and they replied saying they could not replicate it. They offered the following screeny as evidence but there are indications this is not at default settings. I am going to provide them with necessary directions to replicate and try to find out what settings they are using and see how that plays out.
In addition SCAN have confirmed that during the RMA process the CPU was tested separately using the Intel Processor Diagnostics tool which it passed but the CPU mobo combination was not tested using the replacement mobo because they do not normally test replacement items. We have discussed a second RMA with more thorough testing conditional on my replicating their test bench and verifying that the processor is overheating under these conditions including standard replicable BIOS settings. I will first try to discuss the standard for BIOS settings with Gigabyte.
With such a flexible BIOS it is easy to underclock a CPU to remain within a thermal envelope even when package cooling is flawed. Its hard to establish what the baseline settings should be for a fair test, but that is what I must do.
Should a 4790K be able to run 4 cores at 4.4 GHz without overheating? Any input on that welcome, thanks.
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20. Re: How best proceed with overheating i7-4790K?
chilipalm Sep 9, 2014 12:39 PM (in response to boolybooly)So in looking at Gigabyte's screenshot, it looks like they hit a max of 88 degrees celsius at 100% load, and they deem this as acceptable?? My old i7 940 never hit 60 degrees at 100% load. I think this 4790k should be able to run at stock turbo speeds of 4.4ghz without overheating, but we need an official answer from Intel on what are the acceptable temps at stock speeds.
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21. Re: How best proceed with overheating i7-4790K?
boolybooly Sep 10, 2014 6:03 AM (in response to chilipalm)Good point chilipalm, I believe the package thermal envelope is 72 - 80°C. I am going by a well researched guide on Tom's Hardware forums. This states that temps above 80°C are injurious to the processor due to migration etc.
However my own setups temps are higher than Gigabyte's.
This is a screen report from testing with the Intel HS/F with NT-H1 and fan set to full speed in the BIOS which is otherwise optimised defaults apart from SATA which is set to RAID due to an issue with Win7Ultimate not seeing the Crucial M550 1Tb SSD in ACPI mode. So DDR is SPD 1333 1.5v and not XMP. Even so it overheats after 10 mins of AIDAx64. I have sent this to Gigabyte along with precise replication instructions so they can match my BIOS settings exactly.
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22. Re: How best proceed with overheating i7-4790K?
Sponge Sep 10, 2014 8:24 AM (in response to boolybooly)Hi,
I am having a similar issue with my 4790K and Asus Maximus VII Formula.
I am using an H100i. My first attempt with the cooler and the supplied paste (stock BIOS settings, all AUTO, no OC) resulted in 100C temperatures in CoreTemp with Prime95 but the system didn't shut down. I thought the cooler wasn't applied properly so I also put washers behind the backplate and re-applied using Thermalright Chillfactor III thermal paste. The issue persists and it is getting far too hot to be normal.
I also purchased my CPU and Motherboard from SCAN, so should I get in contact with them?
Thanks.
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23. Re: How best proceed with overheating i7-4790K?
allan_intel Sep 11, 2014 8:37 AM (in response to chilipalm)@chilipalm and @TAS3086, I have forwarded your question and information to our engineering department.
Thanks
Allan.
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24. Re: How best proceed with overheating i7-4790K?
boolybooly Sep 12, 2014 4:12 AM (in response to Sponge)Sponge, that is your call. SCAN will pay for pickup and redelivery if they find a fault. If they dont they will charge you at least £30.
If you do RMA, I advise you to insist that they test the CPU with a test which can detect overheating such as AIDAx64 which I know they have available to use. They are willing to authorise on the basis of a test using AIDAx64 and Intel retail HS/F, if the AIDAx64 processor graph shows a red thermal throttling indicator (and CPU temps reach 100°C) then that is sufficient grounds. But you should insist that they use AIDAx64 themselves.
I say this because in my last RMA despite stating that their bench test was AIDAx64 they tested the CPU with Intel Processor Diagnostic Tool only and then returned the CPU to me with a new motherboard whereupon the overheating persisted. I have checked and discovered that this tool does not detect overheating effectively, since a processor core can reach 100°C during the test (which is throttling temperature in AIDx64) and yet still pass the test. Please see the following screenshot for evidence of this.
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25. Re: How best proceed with overheating i7-4790K?
Sponge Sep 12, 2014 4:30 AM (in response to boolybooly)I have done some tests and have some interesting insight...
The overheating only seems to occur with Synthetic benchmarks such as Prime95. Under games it is fine, and even under 100% load with image editing software such as Paint.net. Since all I use my PC for is gaming and Image editing (mostly) I have decided not to RMA the part.
It's clearly not a packaging defect: since it would get immensely hot regardless of the workload. Part of me thinks that when running special instruction sets such as FMA3 and/or AVX2 at full Turbo speeds, the chip can't get the heat off quick enough since these units are larger and require more power to use.
Regarding the motherboard, my Formula wasn't allowing my chip to thermally throttle, which is why it hits 100C+ in these tests. I tested it in an MSI Z97 PC mate under the same test with the included stock cooler, and it rises from 70C to 100C+ where it throttles down to 3.4 GHz to keep cool enough, sitting at 99-100C.
The latest iteration of Prime95 uses FMA3, AFAIK, not sure about the Intel Tool or AIDAx64, but it's interesting. This is still something to bring up to Intel, though, and I'm surprised it's not more widespread. Either way, since my chip remains in the mid-low 40s during gaming, and peaks at ~52C under 100% load image editing on my H100i, I decided not to RMA.
Hope this helps.
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26. Re: How best proceed with overheating i7-4790K?
TAS3086 Sep 12, 2014 3:54 PM (in response to Sponge)Passable solution to my problem:
Set all core and cache ratios to x45. (gets real hot if they do not match)
turbo is activated.
Set Max current levels to 82 watts
Under stress, temp will hold high 60's to low 70's. I think this is acceptable.
Increasing watts to 83 will jump to 90's , so I live good and not too hot at 45000 and 82 watts.
Can not run all cores at x46, I think just setting a few may give me a few extra cycles.
system will peak at 4500 for bursts of time, but under severe stress, it will cycle back to 3800-3900 as the temp gets hotter.
starving the cores of power seems to be good for me, I wish that there were some other algorithmic way.
Comments appreciated,
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27. Re: How best proceed with overheating i7-4790K?
boolybooly Sep 15, 2014 7:53 AM (in response to Sponge)I had to buy AIDAx64 Extreme as the trial period ran out so I am sticking with it for a year at least! It has good diagnostic sub menus.There seems to be some debate about the latest version of Prime95 heat Sponge, which is why I am using AIDAx64 as a benchmark which SCAN recommended. Its not as extreme as Prime95 but it does detect and notify thermal throttling so its a fair bench test to compare like for like with Intel retail HS/F and if AIDAx64 throttles you know there is something wrong.
SCAN's return costs are set up to put an onus on customers to make sure they have tested properly and rechecked basic things like cooler seating etc. Not wishing to seem a totally spoiled brat customer I accept I have to take some responsibility, though I hope that doesn't put people with legitimate problems but less confidence off getting proper support.
I have been down the power throttling route TAS3086 and it works, that trick is in reserve for when the platform is good at default settings. As Gigabyte kindly demonstrated it should be possible to run AIDAx64 continuously on an I7-4790K at default settings using the Intel heatsink fan on this motherboard without thermal throttling. The set up I have can't do that so CPU and motherboard are being RMA'd today for reevaluation. I will update this thread to say how that goes.
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28. Re: How best proceed with overheating i7-4790K?
chilipalm Sep 16, 2014 12:04 PM (in response to boolybooly)At what point can you rule out the cpu cooler? The tech support where I bought my computer told me the cooling unit is the problem. I use a Corsair H60. The unit keeps my cpu at around 39 degrees celsius idle. If I run anything any application say consistently at 15-20% load, temps increase to around 60 degrees or so. There is one game for some strange reason uses the CPU a lot to where it reaches in the 90s.
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29. Re: How best proceed with overheating i7-4790K?
boolybooly Sep 25, 2014 5:33 AM (in response to boolybooly)UPDATE : I have been contacted by my retailer SCAN (by phone) to say replication of this overheating problem was successful, not only this but when they went on to test replacement CPUs using AIDAx64 and Intel retail HS/F they said they discovered a bad batch of three overheating 4790ks before the fourth CPU proved to work within spec under the same conditions.
Here is their screeny showing a CPU operating within spec at 4.4 turbo, running AIDAx64 under the retail Intel HS/F.
EDIT further discussion revealed this was made using a Zalman CNPS9700, not the Intel retail Cooler FYI.
So these CPUs will be returned and I hope they will stimulate Intel to consider its manufacturing process and package design. I hope this will be useful information for others who have thermal issues. I would suggest you could test using AIDAx64 and the Intel HS/F as a standard to compare like for like and if your CPU causes thermal throttling under those conditions you should probably RMA it and get one which doesn't.






