3 Replies Latest reply on Jul 6, 2014 12:18 PM by Radioamateur

    USB 3.0 is not ready yet and may not be for existing devices

    chrissybabe

      Hi, I'm new here because I have just started to play with NUC's. And have also been playing with USB 3.0 powered hubs because my NUC (DC53427) only has 3 USB ports. 3 are not enough by the time you have a wireless K M dongle plugged in and two ports taken up with a USB attached optical drive leaving no ports free for a flashdrive. A rather useless design but maybe workable. I also have problems in getting wireless keyboards and mice working but a lot depends on which ports you use. Any USB 3 port should be able to work directly from the BIOS and not require drivers to be loaded first but they don't.

       

      I will digress here and tell you a story about CF cards and Nikon D800 cameras. I have found that a lot of earlier CF cards will not work in the camera. Finally I have come to the conclusion that some years ago CF card designers either used beta controllers or even just didn't implement ALL features of the CF card specs. Along comes a camera that uses some of these specs and the CF cards just don't work. There are thousands of users who have had this problem. Not once has a reason been proposed for this. The manf have been very silent.about this but I can tell you that all (at least I think so) CF cards you buy now will work. I think that there was some oversight there but no manf will tell you because there will be so much fuss over card replacements etc that everybody is keeping silent. Back to the USB 3 issue -

       

      Now when you plug anything into a USB 2 slot generally everything works just how you would expect. And I have found USB 2 to be very stable and consistent. It has taken 15 years for this to be the case. BUT with USB 3 I have not yet found a USB 3 attached drive, or powered USB 3 hub, that has the stability of USB 2. By this I mean the ability to take a USB 3 drive and be able to plug it into any USB 3 port and have it work. USB 3 has been around for some years but support from Intel and MS has been almost none existent so far. I have been in the IT industry for 40 years and still won't sell any solution using using USB 3 because it just doesn't work right yet. There are some exceptions to this because there have been times when I have got it to work with specific USB 3 attached enclosures and the USB 3.0 ports of certain motherboards.Great, UNTIL you plug that enclosure into another system, Perhaps to perform an image restoration and then you find that a. the backup software doesn't have driver support for that USB 3 chipset or b. there is a mismatch between the USB chips at both sides. It has been like that for 5 years and I have found no change in the situation. You will hear little or nothing from manfs because they don't suddenly want to have to be changing out millions of motherboards and other assorted devices because they screwed up. I do not sell any backup solution relying upon USB 3 yet and still use USB 2 because it works and the other doesn't.

       

      A USB 3 port should be a simple device yet this forum, and heaps of others, are full of USB 3 problems. It might be that a better driver might fix it for some of us (and only SOME I think) but I suspect that the problem is much deeper and there will be no satisfactory solution for most for a while yet. USB 3 powered hubs are a joke and a total waste of money. Devices with only USB 3 ports will give owners problems unless they only use USB 2 devices AND owners never RELY on any USB 3 attached device working when your reputation is on the line.

       

      This is the 3rd time I have been through hassles where the main outstanding feature has been the total absence of  meaning-full dialog from the manufacturers. And it is all to do with liability.

      1. The first was wifi and ipads.

      2. Seocond was the CF saga above.

      3. And now the USB 3 problem (this has been there even before 1. above) but this is the first time it has seriously inconvenienced me because I now need it not to be a problem.

        • 1. Re: USB 3.0 is not ready yet and may not be for existing devices
          Need_a_fix

          While USB 3.0 is a standard, it is evolving very quickly. USB 3,1 is already out, and it is many times faster than USB 3.0 but still uses the same 3.0 connector. So while 3.0 and 3.1 are both on the same connector, the overall 3.0/3.1 standard is still evolving, and until that settles down, nobody is going to put USB 3.0/3.1 code into the UEFI "bios".  Its day will come. USB 2.0 products will all be replaced by USB 3.something products, and that will push the software developers to put that code into the UEFI "bios" more and more. But don't expect that to happen all that soon. Maybe in a year... maybe.

           

          You said this yourself. Its taken USB 2.0 15 years to get to full stability. And yet you seem to want USB 3.0 to reach that same level of stability while it is still evolving. Sorry, but that just ain't gonna happen.

           

          If you want USB 2.0 stability, buy USB 2.0 products. At least for another year or three.

          • 2. Re: USB 3.0 is not ready yet and may not be for existing devices
            chrissybabe

            It's not that I want USB 3 to have the same level of stability (although of course I do) but you would think that if it took USB 2 that long that they could learn from this and put more effort in sooner to make USB 3 work better. I used USB 3 intermittently on XP boxes. Now after Vista, Windows 7 AND Windows 8 it still isn't working ! It may well be that USB 3.1 is faster but I would be more interested in having the earlier standard (standard ? hahaha) work before they move onto later standards. Thank God the USB standards committee, and involved suppliers, don't design the shuttle or other space craft.

            The amount of devices coming out with only USB 3 connections (my latest laptop for example) indicates that suppliers think the stability is there already, but it ain't. I don't actually expect USB 3 to work either so I check every year or so. The rant above was caused by me finding out that yet again there are USB 3 problems (and comning fresh away from the CF saga didn't help).

            And I take your point about USB 3 and UEFI BIOS's. However it isn't even the BIOS where it's not working. I spent half of yesterday trying to get two different USB 3 hubs, two different USB 3 drive enclosures, on three different USB channels (3 computers - 2 x Win 7 & 1 x Win 8.1) to work together. No go. All the computers have the latest USB 3 drivers I can find but the hubs just don't work. The first time you connect the hub is found and any drive attached is found. Disconnect the drive through the little remove drive thingy and plug it back in again (after a decent interval elapsed) and the drives just don't show up. That's got to be drivers and chipsets. I am sure that after a reboot I may be able to repeat the initial step but that IS NOT the solution.

            I was hoping to use USB 3 hubs as sacrificial connections to protect the computer connections from wear and tear. Over the years I have seen a lot of motherboards and laptops having to be replaced solely because the USB connections have been slogged out. But this also isn't going to be a workable solution until anything USB 3 can plug into anything else USB 3.

            • 3. Re: USB 3.0 is not ready yet and may not be for existing devices
              Radioamateur

              Totally agree. In my case, the NUC is D34010WYK. So far I've used an 16 Gb USB 3.0 stick  and I want to replace it  by a 64 Gb stick.  The idea was to copy the contents from one to another, but it has been impossible. Initially the NUC recognizes both devices, but when starts copying,  the 64Gb stick disappears;  the only solution has been  to do the copy  in my laptop with USB 2.0 ports. The drivers and  the  bios version are the latest, but not work. If we add the known issues with graphics drivers and sound (hdmi),  perhaps would have been better to try another alternative, Zotac, for example. Greetings from Catalonia.