12 Replies Latest reply on Apr 6, 2014 3:50 AM by Bungie

    Processor Thermal Trip on D54250WYB

    Bungie

      Hi there,

       

      Great that I've found this forum... A week and a half ago, my D54250WYB board shut itself down overnight. At the time it was idling, and in the BIOS was an event "Processor Thermal Trip". I'm running Windows 8.1 x64, with the latest BIOS and drivers.

       

      I had a look in the Windows Event Logs for unusual events or errors, and there was nothing eye-catching around the time of the event. I also saved the System and Administrative logs in case (or so I could look at them again should they be overwritten, especially to see - if it happened again - how much commonality there was).

       

      I've since left the NUC running pretty much 24/7, save a reboot or two for Windows Updates, and have installed CoreTemp with logging turned on. The temperatures seem to be around 40-43C consistently at idle, rising to the high 40s/ low 50s on average during moderate to low activity (movie streaming from Plex server, file copies/ downloads etc.), with the occasional short-lived rise to the mid to high 60s, though very infrequently. The ambient temperature is 23-24C, and I should add that I am using a fanless Tranquil PC H2 chassis. While this would be the immediate potential culprit, the operating temperatures seem fairly normal (especially at idle, perhaps a little high during activity?) - if the chassis were the issue, I'm surprised I've not seen something more alarming in the CoreTemp logs.

       

      My concern is finding out why this happened, and although it hasn't happened again, I'm left wondering whether it will. I've asked the guys at Tranquil PC and they don't seem too concerned, basically saying that from the CoreTemp logs, the NUC appears to be operating just fine (which is true enough).

       

      Any ideas on the root cause? Has anyone else reported this?

       

      I'm attaching the Event Logs - the Thermal Trip event occurred around 5.45am on 02 March 2014.

       

      My setup is as follows:

       

      ABEL H2 Chassis

      Core i5 D54250WYB (latest UEFI BIOS from Intel)

      Crucial CT240M500SSD3 240GB MSATA SSD

      Samsung Spinpoint ST2000LM003 2GB 2.5 SATA HDD

      2 x Crucial 8GB DDR3 1600 MT/s CL11 SODIMM (1.35v)

      APC Back-UPS CS 350

      Windows 8.1 Professional x64 (latest drivers from Intel)

       

       

      Many thanks,

       

      Ben

        • 1. Re: Processor Thermal Trip on D54250WYB
          joe_intel

          Let’s try to identify the cause of your issue.

           

          As the title suggests, we can probably agree that one of the first suspects is the processor. I wonder if you can monitor the processor temperature in BIOS and/or run the Intel® Processor Diagnostic Tool.

           

          I wanted to get more information about your chassis so I found this integration video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3aW8-E5w3tg

           

          Please make sure the thermal paste applied to the processor appears smudged into the chassis, thus indicating both surfaces were making contact. You may also want to verify if the thermal pad for the SSD is correctly positioned.

           

          I also wonder if the issue is caused by accumulated heat from a different component (or from all of them) being stressed. Perhaps it is a good idea to stress the other components as well and observe the effect on the global and processor temperature by each component.

          1 of 1 people found this helpful
          • 2. Re: Processor Thermal Trip on D54250WYB
            Bungie

            Hi Joe,

            Thanks for coming back to me. I'm monitoring the Processor Temp in CoreTemp, and I ran the IPDT which passed the Processor on all fronts (results attached, ambient temp 24C).

             

            Regarding the assembly/ placing the board in the chassis: this was done by Tranquil PC, and, since the temperature readings are generally ok, I would imagine that it was done correctly. In order to take a look at what they'd done, I'd need to make sure I had some cleaning fluid and more Thermal Paste on hand so that I could re-apply afterwards, since I'd have to remove the board entirely. I suggested this to Tranquil PC but they recommended not to bother (based on the temperature readings which I gave them).

             

            For the MSATA, I put the Thermal Pads on myself (removing the plastic covering first), as shown in Tranquil's YouTube clip. I've had another look inside and they seem to be placed fine over the MSATA SSD.

             

            Finally, regarding the accumulation of heat, I'll have a look this weekend, but was thinking of using PassMark's 30 Day Trial on their BurnInTest Software: PassMark BurnInTest software - PC Reliability and Load Testing along with CPUID's HWMonitor to see the temperature readings. Will report back when I have some results.

             

            Many thanks,

             

            Ben

             

            Message was edited by: Ben Turnberg

            • 3. Re: Processor Thermal Trip on D54250WYB
              Bungie

              So I didn't manage to test the individual components over the weekend: PassMark's software crashed while running, and I found a few posts on the internet warning people off using Prime95 and AIDA64 on Haswell processors. If you have any particular software in mind I'd be happy to give it a try.

               

              On the other hand , I did come across Intel XTU - so far I've done the 3min Benchmarking test, and the processor maxed at 79. Will perform some stress tests (1hr for each of CPU, Memory, Graphics) and report back...

              • 4. Re: Processor Thermal Trip on D54250WYB
                Picknicker

                Hi Bungie,

                 

                I was recently experiencing exactly the same issue with exactly the same product. The phenomenon shows up always the CPU is set under higher load for a couple of seconds (e.g. Windows Self Assessment, HDD defrag, virus scan etc.) although the temperatures are far away from being critical.

                Did you notice that they included a 12V/3A power supply only, even a quite 'basic' one you can find in the internet for approx. 8US$ without shipping incl. the main three intl. mains adapters(?)

                AFAIK Intel is shipping their NUCs with a 19V/65W Fortron Source Power supply (FSP065-REB).

                Long story short, I've tried another one from my girlfriend's notebook and guess what? It works!

                 

                Cheers,

                Picknicker

                • 5. Re: Processor Thermal Trip on D54250WYB
                  Bungie

                  Hi Picknicker,

                   

                  Thanks for posting about your experiences - good to know and really appreciate the input. I'm not in front of the NUC now so can't check, but you're saying that Tranquil PC send out 12V adaptors and that perhaps they ought to send a 19V adaptor? Could this lower voltage adaptor impact the CPU operating temperature perhaps? I'm not so knowledgeable about the "physics" side of things...

                   

                  On the other hand, stress testing the components with Intel XTU didn't lead to a repeat of the Thermal Trip event, so I wonder if you didn't have a faulty adaptor e.g. if it was fairly consistent for you after only a small processor-intensive task?

                   

                  The stress testing did however give some fairly high temps:

                   

                  1 hour Stress Test of CPU:

                  Max CPU Temp = 82C

                  Max GPU Temp = 66C

                  Max SSD Temp = 63C (assumed to be momentary)

                  Max HDD Temp = 52C

                   

                  1 hour Stress Test of Memory:

                  Max CPU Temp = 83C

                  Max GPU Temp = 65C

                  Max SSD Temp = 60C (assumed to be momentary)

                  Max HDD Temp = 51C

                   

                  12min Stress Test of GPU (stopped because I wasn't sure about the TJMAX of the GPU)

                  Max CPU Temp = 74C

                  Max GPU Temp = 84C

                  Max SSD Temp = 46C

                  Max HDD Temp = 46C

                   

                  Have you tried stress testing? What kind of operating temps do you get? Idle temp? I'd be really interested to know.

                   

                  I'm considering reapplying the Thermal Paste just to be sure - not sure it will help but these temperatures seem high to me.

                   

                  B

                  • 6. Re: Processor Thermal Trip on D54250WYB
                    Picknicker

                    Hi Bungie,

                     

                    This sounds much different from the symptoms I was experiencing before having tried another power supply.

                    My NUC already shuts down after a couple of seconds under full CPU load using the included power supply. Maybe this one is 'just' faulty although running 24/7 with no problems as long as no higher loads are applied.

                    I did not yet do any such long stress tests, but I intend to once having a new (permanent) power supply in place. Your measured temperatures don't look abnormal to me, but I'd be interested in getting to know whether it may be worth in terms of lower CPU temperatures losing Tranquil's 5yr warranty by removing the board any replacing the thermal paste(?)

                    The power supply's output voltage itself doesn't matter so much, assuming that there are DC-DC converters somewhere behind on the NUC board. Power is what counts here (nominal 65W vs. 36W of the included one).

                    The benefit from a higher voltage and lower current resulting in less heat at the DC-DC converter(s) may be marginal, if at all existing.

                    Do you have the opportunity trying another power supply? Just temporarily for trial?

                    I can hardly believe your NUC ran for 1h under full load with the 36W one. Do/did you have other significant power consumers connected to the USB ports (USB powered HDDs or other), which were not present during your stress test?

                     

                    Cheers,

                    Picknicker

                    • 7. Re: Processor Thermal Trip on D54250WYB
                      Bungie

                      Thanks for the info Picknicker. I think our issues probably are different if you couldn't put sustained load on your CPU (hardly/ at all). I don't think I have a spare power adapter to test, but I'll have a check when I'm at home.

                       

                      Thanks for mentioning about the warranty - I got in touch with Tranquil PC just now and they said I'd be fine because I checked with them first (though warned about common errors e.g. air bubble, and that it would usually void warranty). I'll probably end up getting some Arctic MX-4, but it's unlikely to be for a week or two. Hopefully that will shave a few degrees off the idle/ stress temps...

                       

                      Apart from the setup in the original post, the only peripheral which I have attached is a USB dongle for a RF (?) keyboard. No permanently-connected external HDDs, though I've done a bit of data copying to and from USB2 and USB3 drives without issue...

                       

                      Hope this info is useful - I'll post back if/ when I have some more info (power adapter, new Thermal Paste). Let me know how you get on.

                       

                      B

                      • 8. Re: Processor Thermal Trip on D54250WYB
                        Picknicker

                        Hi Bungie,

                         

                        Thanks for your quick response.

                        I was initially thinking of doing the same using Prolimatech PK-3.

                        For later result comparability purposes(FYI): I'm running W7-ULT-64bit.

                        Which application did you try for your tests? You mentioned some are apparently not recommended for Haswell(?)

                        This one may be interesting as well as a temperature reference, although for the elder Abel chassis using Ivy Bridge: (FYI)

                        techPowerUp! - The latest in hardware and gaming

                        I'm curious to see whether replacing the thermal paste will recognizably reduce the temperatures.

                        Did the Tranquil guys share their opinion about your measurement results - besides the remaining problem of the unpleasant thermal trip shut downs?

                        Are those within "normal" range from their point of view?

                         

                        Cheers,

                        Picknicker

                        • 9. Re: Processor Thermal Trip on D54250WYB
                          Bungie

                          The values which I mentioned to Tranquil when initially getting in touch with them were the idle temp and ambient temp, and temp when doing a prolonged copy job (58C). They were happy with these temps, although they initially mentioned that my idle temp was a bit high (prompting me to think about Thermal Paste). Later on they said they were within a "normal range" and since I couldn't replicate the Thermal Trip issue or prove that there was any other cause for concern, they closed the call.

                           

                          They might have been old posts about Prime95 and AIDA64 not being compatible with Haswell, but I didn't want to chance it. I used the Intel eXtreme Tuning Utility - it looks like it's for gamers, which I'm not interested in, but there are some tests in there too, based on Prime95 apparently (though compatible in this case).

                           

                          The TechPowerUp article was interesting - I didn't perform the same tests but it looks like they were getting similar temps at idle at least. At full load, my temps were considerably higher, but I'm not sure what test they were doing (Furmark is the only one they mentioned, and that was for the GPU).

                          • 10. Re: Processor Thermal Trip on D54250WYB
                            joe_intel

                            Intel® Extreme Tuning Utilities was designed to be used with Intel® Extreme Motherboards. In your case we can only recommend Intel® Processor Diagnostic Tool or the Windows*Experience Index assessment test.

                             

                            Picknicker’s issue is different but it could be that the power supply is simply defective. You may want to contact your nearest Intel® support team so you can request a warranty replacement.

                             

                            I am including these other links in case you just want to purchase a different one.

                             

                            Intel� NUC Boards and Kits; Tested peripherals

                             

                            Intel� NUC Boards and Kits; Customer-reported peripherals

                            • 11. Re: Processor Thermal Trip on D54250WYB
                              Bungie

                              Thanks Joe - I was using the tests provided by Intel XTU as I couldn't find a definitive answer as to whether I could saefly/ meaningfully use AIDA64 or Prime95 on a Haswell chip. I believe AIDA64 is ok, and may try it in the future.

                               

                              I had another Thermal Trip event this morning, and Tranquil are going to send a replacement Power Supply in case that is the issue. Since I bought the board from Tranquil, I'm guessing a warranty replacement Power Supply from Intel isn't an option.

                               

                              Many thanks,

                               

                              B

                              • 12. Re: Processor Thermal Trip on D54250WYB
                                Bungie

                                So it looks like it was most likely an issue with the power adaptor: the Thermal Trip happened again and CPU monitoring proved that the CPU temperature wasn't the cause. Tranquil PC have replaced the original adaptor with one from the tested peripherals list and (so far) no repeat of the issue.

                                 

                                I also reapplied the Thermal Paste to the CPU which has so far produced negligible results, maybe 1-2 degrees C improvement.

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