6 Replies Latest reply on Jan 21, 2014 2:12 PM by joe_intel

    What's the cause of some unexpected results during build of a D54250WYK ?

    paul456

      I have just installed Win7 Pro 64-bit onto a new NUC.  Had a few unexpected results, so would appreciate advice on likely source of problem, NUC, or what other component.

      After installing the OS from a USB-DVD drive, I installed NUC drivers and App software from a USB3 pendrive.

      I bought the Integral pendrive new for this purpose.  Although it works without causing an error message in 2 other PCs, whenever I plug it into the NUC I see a message "USB device not recognised" - but Explorer on the NUC is able to read and copy the files apparently without problem.  I see same message at coldstart even without a pendrive plugged in.  As the 2 front USB ports are used by the KB & Mouse, I tried the pendrive in both rear USB ports with same result.  I dont want to bootup without KB & Mouse as it may require a unrecommended hard switch-off.   I then installed the HWinfo64 utility to inspect the USB ports.  It lists 13 USB ports, most shown as 'Unconnected', but Port 7 "Device failed enumeration".   It lists Port1 as the front inner USB, Port2 as front outer USB, Port 12 as rear lower USB, and Port 13 as rear upper USB.  So I am wondering if Port7 is faulty, or connected to some faulty internal device ?   My only internal additions are RAM, SSD, & Wireless-AC 7260.  Externally, (apart from KB & Mouse on USB Ports 1 & 2), I have connected a 3.5mm audio lead to external HiFi, and a 'Cable Matters' miniHDMI to VGA adapter cable.

       

      Second unexpected behaviour, although Windows installed using default 'Balanced' power profile set at 10 minutes screen blanking, the Dell M992 monitor, often but not always, screen blanks twice briefly in quick succession after only a few minutes of idle.   (It blanks normally after the Windows 10 minutes idle time).  The monitor has no power-save option in its setup menu.  I don't remember it doing that before but have no another pc to hand to check if repeatable with another PC.  The monitor hasnt been used for a few years so may be the cause, but thought to ask if this could be a NUC issue.

       

      Thirdly, I see many posts on subject of noise (and heat).   This NUC is quite noticeably louder at idle than my previous miniPC the Acer Revo R3610 which is almost inaudible in a quiet room.   The NUC noise (the fan) is like a quiet whine, a bit like a jet engine starting up when I switch on - sorry about the comparison but I couldnt think of another noise to compare with.    This is from a cold start where room temperature 18c, and HWinfo64 reports a fan speed of 2,900RPM at cold start.   Yesterday it reported 3,600RPM after many hours at near idle.  I have not altered any BIOS settings.

       

      Fourthly, boot time is 18 seconds to the F2 prompt, 45 seconds to when the mouse cursor becomes responsive.  Is this to be expected ?    This is my first SSD based system, and I read boots from SSD are much faster than HDD.

      Rest of my hardware is 2x4GB Crucial CT51264BF160BJ,  Sandisk X110 256GB,  Wireless-AC 7260.  I have installed only a few Apps so far, so SSD shows 86.1% free.

       

      Having installed Win7 Pro SP1 64-bit, I searched Intel Download Centre for correct drivers Desktop>D54250WYK.  It listed 10 files.   However, as executing the WYK-WYB-Win7-64bitDriver-Bundle EXE caused an unpack into 1 subfolder with many subfolders called: Audio, Chipset, Consumer Infrared, Graphics, Intel ME, LAN, Rapid Start Tech,  Rapid Storage tech, Smart Connect Tech, USB3, I just executed the Chipset file followed by all others from that bundle, which seemed to COMPLETE all of the required driver install, excepting WiFi, I thought no point running the remaining 9 files from that initial list of 10.   Once I had executed the 7260 Driver + PROSet install, no yellow exclamation marks remained in Device Mgr.    As I saw no advice on the D54250WYK Win7 64-bit Driver install procedure, can you confirm if the above procedure is correct ?

       

      Thank you.

        • 1. Re: What's the cause of some unexpected results during build of a D54250WYK ?
          jan_andersen

          I will try to answer:

           

           

          1. 1.  Have you updated your Windows fully? It can easily take a few
            hours. If you still have the problem google 'USB device not
            recognised',
            there is lots of help out there.
          2. 2.  I don't think the NUC is the problem. Could be your adapter or
            monitor.
          3. 3.  If your NUC is too noisy send it back. Many (may be all)
            D54250WYK's are noisy and the cooling system doesn't live up to ‘Intel standard’.
          4. 4. Boot time: 45 seconds is too long time I think. I have Internet
            connection via LAN in 25 seconds (Intel 525 SSD 180 GB/W7 Pro).
          5. 5. Seems like you have done it right.
          1 of 1 people found this helpful
          • 2. Re: What's the cause of some unexpected results during build of a D54250WYK ?
            joe_intel

            Some recommendations:

            • USB issue: I would remove all USB host controllers and root hub drivers from device manager, then restart.
            • Video issue: I agree it could be related to the converter.
            • Fan noise: You may want to adjust the fan response in BIOS. Updating the BIOS may help too. Otherwise, contact your local Intel® support team for replacement.
            • Boot time: Do you know if your Intel® NUC unit came with a thermal pad for the SSD? If not, contact Intel® support to get one. Otherwise, it could be related to the SSD itself.
            • Driver installation order appears to be correct.

             

            Contact Support

            1 of 1 people found this helpful
            • 3. Re: What's the cause of some unexpected results during build of a D54250WYK ?
              paul456

              @Jan_Anderson, @Joe_Intel 19/12/13 Thread 4735

              1)  Re. apparent failure of USB Port 7, in Device Mgr>USB I now notice an entry 'Unknown Device'.  clicking on it shows Port 0007, "No drivers are installed for this device".  As stated earlier, the 4 external USBs have different Port nos. and appear to work fine.  So I am wondering WHAT is connected to Port 7 ?

              If there is some internal device connected, then surely all I need to know is which Driver to download and install ?

              you suggested I 'remove all USB host controllers and root hub drivers from device manager, then restart.'   As I use USB KB & Mouse to control the NUC, wont removing the above disable the NUC ? 

               

              To clarify the steps:  Which USB items in the Device Mgr tree do I 'remove' ? - I see upto 5 candidates: Generic USB Hub, Intel USB Enhanced Host Controller #1,  Intel USB 3 eXtensible.., Intel USB 3 Root Hub,  USB Root Hub.   Which ones do I 'remove' ?  after right-clicking, do I then Disable or Uninstall ?

               

              As I never had to troubleshoot USB ports before, does this action disconnect the KB/Mouse at this point ?  If so, only way to 'restart' is to remove power and power up.  Can you advise of any reinstallation steps that may be required after this ?

               

              2) Monitor blanking prob solved by changing the 'Cable Matters' miniHDMI-to-VGA adapter to diff make, except that make wont show BIOS or anything until windows desktop state - at least it has Audio-out.

               

              3) Fan noise:  reason for waiting to buy your Haswell NUC is its to use in Brazil where room temp is often 35C. Having had previous overheating problems there, I looked carefully for a miniPC to replace my Revo R3610 with enough speed to run all my jobs with a minimum internal temperature rise.

              Under near idle conditions CrystalDiskInfo (which I install on all my systems to show temp permanently in the Systray) reports 14C above room temp in the UK.  Adding that temp rise to a Brazilian room temp of 35 takes the SSD to 49C, not much different from the Revo, where the HDD overtemp warning frequently triggered, and that is still at near idle.  I could try altering the fan-control default  'auto' setting to cut the noise, but I rather not as I guess a) coming off 'auto' means deciding some fixed speed for low-demand operations, resulting in higher internal temperature than with the previous miniPC - defeating one of my 2 objectives in replacing it - at, a not very happy x3 times higher cost; and b) I am already desperately late preparing for the trip, and dont have time for much investigating before I leave.  I looked briefly at BIOS control of Fan: Under Manual, there are only 2 adjustments: Under-speed threshold, & Duty Cycle. I tried reducing the threshold from the default 250, but the slider is so coarse I was only able to get 0 or 484, so not saved - but as the NUC cold starts at 2,900 guess its irrelevant. In 'Performance', I notice CPU Efficiency Policy default is 'High Performance';  would it reduce internal temp rise by altering to 'Balanced' ? - and where do I learn what 'Balanced' does ? 

               

              My previous post said I saw many posts on subject of noise (and heat).  In fact, some quite contradictory views on the fan noise - some say inaudible, others say loud.  Does that mean Fan noise varies quite a bit between samples ?

               

              4) Boot time: My NUC came with a long soft pad stuck inside the lid.  From my research of SSDs, the Sandisk X110 runs cooler than the Intel 525, Crucial M500 and a few other mSATAs.  At cold start internal temperature is 18C, Fan 2,900rpm so what relevance is a heatsink to coldstart time ?   I said boot time to F2 prompt 18 seconds, 45 secs to mouse responsive.   Intel must have some figures on time range to F2 prompt - which I guess is independant of SSD anyway ? and then to Mouse free ?  In 3) above, I delved into the BIOS. Initial BIOS page 1 says 'No Boot drive' - is that important ? On another BIOS Page it says Sandisk on SATA#03.  Under 'Secondary Pwr Settings' I see 'Intel Rapid Start' default is NOT enabled; what would be the effect of enabling it ?   Also see UEFI Boot only 'Boot Network Devices Last' is sticked. Should I tick 'Fast Boot' ? 

               

              Just now I thought to measure more Boot-time points to give you in case it helped you narrow down why slow, but it is now slower still.

              I don't know if its because I moved the KB/Mouse to the back ports, installed more Apps, or altered 2 settings in the BIOS-yet exited NoSave. I have changed nothing else (when getting a new system, if it works ok, I rarely change defaults)

               

              Time to 'Intel NUC' display 10 secs,  to F2 prompt 25 secs, to full Desktop display 38 secs, to Mouse responsive 51 secs.

               

              Boot time is not my major concern, it was just a surprise as I read Windows boot from SSD was much faster.

               

              5) Your previous reply suggested the USB Port 7 error was caused by the Windows 7 SP1 DVD install not having latest MS Updates.  I read MS Updates are big and slow, which would have emptied my low-cap 3G connection in a week incurring penalties so hoped to skip online updates until Brazil.  As my neighbour has a ADSL connection, he said I could access his Router - 2 walls/ 1 floor away, to do the MS Updates.  The 7260-AC WiFi in the NUC shows 2bars but has difficulty maintaining good connection with the Router.  The Intel Wifi-G on my 7 year old Notebook also shows 2bars, but slightly better connection. My Nexus 5 shows only 1bar, but is rock solid, proving an even smaller form factor is not a problem.  I have no tools to measure NUC Wifi sensitivity more precisely.  A bit disappointing as I read 802.11-AC was supposed to give longer range than N or G, but like Boot time, not a high priority just now.  Again, I read in 1 other review the 7260 has weaker 2.4GHz than its predecessor.  I have not altered the default Max 32mW setting.

              While on this, so far, my only observation on improvements to the D54250WYK apart from the cheap fan, are there is room on your case for a pair of sockets to attach external Antennae to improve reception, and I would have liked an audio header on the pcb, to allow bypass of the notoriously unreliable 50+year old 3.5mm earphone socket.    The MS updates carried on over many days with repeatedly long power-downs, but made no difference to USB error message at bootup.   The BIOS 'USB Configuration' is Legacy by default, and only lists Ports 1 to 6 - so what does Port 7 do ?

               

              The single most important issue is the fan noise. (the fan noise starts from a cold 18C start, so as its a mechanical thing, surely updating the BIOS will have no bearing on mechanical issue ?     Does the fan noise vary much from one sample to another*, as inferred by the contradicting reviews ?  If the answer is no, then what will be achieved by swopping the NUC ?   If no light can be thrown on this USB Port 7 fault, and not known on other samples, then for future safety, probably best to swop the unit.  Can you advise me of contact email for my 'local Intel Support team' for Southampton UK ?   If the unit is to be swopped, it needs to be done quickly with minimum hassle to avoid impacting more on my move to Brazil.

               

               

              *PS: on login to upload this post, I see more complaints today about the Fan and Silvia_intel recommending swopping whole unit, which rather supports my thought that changing software is not an answer to mechanical vibration from a low quality fan.  But I need assurance the replacement unit will have a better quality Fan.

              • 4. Re: What's the cause of some unexpected results during build of a D54250WYK ?
                paul456

                It just occured to me, although I installed the 7260-AC driver, I see no entry for the 7260 Bluetooth in Device Manager or Systemtray.  Might that be responsible for Port 7 status 'No Driver installed' ?

                • 5. Re: What's the cause of some unexpected results during build of a D54250WYK ?
                  provo44

                  Fan Noise:

                  >>Does that mean Fan noise varies quite a bit between samples ?<<


                  My guess would be yes. I am now 10 ft from the NUC and I can't here the fan. I am unable to here the fan positively until my ear is 1 ft from the NUC and then it sounds like white noise.


                  https://www.google.com/search?q=white+noise+machine&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a


                  If you could ascertain the manufacturer you may be able to swap it out?

                  • 6. Re: What's the cause of some unexpected results during build of a D54250WYK ?
                    paul456

                    @Joe_Intel   Thread 4735  3/1/14

                    It is over 2 weeks since I responded to your suggestion the NUC be replaced due to high fan noise.  I put some questions to you to on that topic:  

                    a)  from my point 3)  "Glancing at 'Performance', I notice CPU Efficiency Policy default is 'High Performance';  would it reduce internal temp rise by altering to 'Balanced' ? - and where do I learn what 'Balanced' does ?  "  and:

                    b)     "The single most important issue is the fan noise. (the fan noise starts from a cold 18C start, so as its a mechancial thing, surely updating the BIOS will have no bearing on mechanical issue ?)      Does the fan noise vary much from one sample to another*, as inferred by the contradicting reviews ?  If the answer is no, then what will be achieved by swopping the NUC ?   If no light can be thrown on this USB Port 7 fault, and not known on other samples, then for future safety, probably best to swop the unit.  Can you advise me of contact email for my 'local Intel Support team' for Southampton UK ?   If the unit is to be swopped, it needs to be done quickly with minimum hassle to avoid impacting more on my move to Brazil.

                     

                    *PS: on login to upload this post, I see more complaints today about the Fan and Sylvia_intel recommending swopping, which rather supports my thought that changing software is not an answer to mechanical vibration from a low quality fan.  But I need assurance the replacement unit will have a better quality Fan."

                     

                    Having not heard back from you I am disappointed.  As I explained, I am already desperately late preparing to take the NUC on a trip to Brazil. [Unless this is sorted very quickly before leaving for Brazil I will be stuck with the noise issue]  Today I logged into the forum spent some time searching for other complaints on the issue and see under topic 'Fan noise from D54250WYK' you replied: 

                    "joe_intel Dec 9, 2013 8:01 PM (in response to jan_andersen)

                    Based on the sound I perceive it as a fan bearing issue.

                    Please contact your local Intel® support team for further assistance.

                    http://www.intel.com/p/en_US/support/contactsupport"

                    Further down the long list of similar complaints, I see this month someone posted a recording of theirs.   It sounds very similar to what on 18/12/13 I described as "The NUC noise (the fan) is like a quiet whine, a bit like a jet engine starting up when I switch on - sorry about the comparison but I couldnt think of another noise to compare with. ".  Mine has additional higher frequence components compaered to the recording (since downloading the 139KB zip, I see there are others) I have since read another described the noise as originating from the FAN BEARINGS - NOT THE AIR NOISE GENERATED FROM FAN BLADES.   I agree with that and conclude the source of the problem is cheap quality bearings.   Although a number of other posts on this forum have opined the fan noise varies from sample to sample, many posters have described the noise as similar to the published recording, and what is worse, at least 1 unit Intel have replaced, was replaced with a unit just a few days older than the returned unit, and was actually worse !

                     

                    The other thing noticed from reading on the topic today is in over a month of complaints, I have seen no mention of the name/model number of the fan causing the problem, or if Intel use a variety of fan makes for the D54250WYK.  If I was researching the fan noise problem at Intel, I would have got a number of makes of fan that can fit in the NUC and compared the noise specification and made measurments to confirm which makes are consistently quieter on production samples, and use those for both replacement and all future NUCs.  Problem solved !    Why no manufacturer info made available on the issue ?

                     

                     

                    So Joe_intel, I answered your 19 December input "contact your local Intel® support team for replacement." with a request "Can you advise me of contact email for my 'local Intel Support team' for Southampton UK ?".    If the problem is sat on much longer, I will be off to Brazil before resolving.

                     

                     

                    Regarding the few other less important issues.   On the USB Port7 reporting 'no driver installed' I later realized the 7260 Driver + PROSet install, giving no yellow exclamation marks remaining in Device Mgr, was no guarantee all was well, and seeing no sign of Blutetooth anywhere, recently looked again in Intel Downloadcenter, and from it under Wireless-AC 7260 Windows7 64bit, installed a Bluetooth file BT_3.1.1.311_s64.exe.   Got a success msg, but still no sign of Bluetooth and USB Port7 error msg still appears at bootup.   Any suggestions ?    Are 7260's in NUCs best supported in another Intel forum ?

                     

                    Re. my last post on NUC Wifi sensitivity being a bit down on my Intel WiFi-G in my 7 year old laptop - is that usual for the D54250WYK with Wireless-AC 7260 ?

                    • 7. Re: What's the cause of some unexpected results during build of a D54250WYK ?
                      joe_intel

                      Paul456, the option to contact your local Intel® warranty team is given in the same link you provided above (http://www.intel.com/p/en_US/support/contactsupport). There, you can choose Europe, Desktop boards, type anything in the third box and the next page will provide the option: “Go to contact options (phone, email, chat, etc…)”.

                       

                      There are other threads regarding fan noise and fan control settings, which are being investigated:

                       

                      https://communities.intel.com/message/215606

                       

                      https://communities.intel.com/thread/46759

                       

                      Bluetooth* issues on Intel® NUCs are discussed here: https://communities.intel.com/thread/47530