9 Replies Latest reply on Oct 30, 2013 12:10 PM by Diego_Intel

    Cannot get 4:4:4 chroma on 965GMA with VGA or HDMI

    NintendoManiac64

      I have a Dell laptop with the Intel 965 chipset, and has both VGA and HDMI video outputs, and being a laptop it obviously has an integrated display.

       

      When the Intel 965 chipset drivers are NOT installed, I will get a 4:4:4 chroma video output just fine over either VGA or HDMI, and can even get HDMI audio working at the same time as having a 4:4:4 chroma on the HDMI connection.  However, once I install the Intel 965 chipset drivers, both the VGA and HDMI will no longer output a 4:4:4 chroma signal and instead output something lower, either 4:2:2 or 4:2:0 (the integrated LCD will still use a 4:4:4 chroma video signal however).  This has been tested with both Windows 7 SP1 64bit and Windows 8 64bit.  Also note that, when the Intel chipset drivers aren't installed, the laptop will not output over VGA or HDMI unless Windows was booted up while the lid was closed.

       

      So the question is, how can I get a 4:4:4 chroma video signal over (preferably) HDMI without resorting to the generic unaccelerated drivers that come with Windows?

       

      For reference, I'm using this image to test for 4:4:4 chroma:

      http://cdn.avsforum.com/b/be/be355246_vbattach233862.png

       

      When the video signal isn't 4:4:4 chroma, between each of the bright red lines in the upper-left of the image there will be a extra thinner red lines that aren't actually present in the image

       

      Here's what that image looks like on my external display when the Intel 965 chipset is outputting lower-than 4:4:4 chroma (photo taken by me):

      chroma fail.png

        • 1. Re: Cannot get 4:4:4 chroma on 965GMA with VGA or HDMI
          Diego_Intel

          Please bear in mind that this product has reached its End of Interactive Support so Intel no longer provides interactive support for this product via telephone, chat or e-mail. Furthermore, there are no software/driver development plans for this video controller as it has reached its end of life. Furthermore, the drivers and the video controller are not validated for Microsoft* Windows* 8.

           

          Just to get more information on the system being used, please post the dxdiag report from the system that you are having issues with.

          • 2. Re: Cannot get 4:4:4 chroma on 965GMA with VGA or HDMI
            NintendoManiac64

            Here you go, two dxdiag logs - one without the chipset drivers installed and one with them installed.  Note that these were taken without any external displays plugged into said laptop.

             

            Without chipset drivers installed:

            Dell_Laptop dxdiag - w/o igp drivers - Pastebin.com

             

            With chipset drivers installed:

            Dell_Laptop dxdiag - with igp drivers - Pastebin.com

             

            EDIT: To clarify, I can give you logs with an external VGA and/or HDMI display attached when the chipset drivers are both installed and not installed, but that is quite the amount of combinations that it could be done in.  Therefore, rather than go through and log every single combination when you may only need need of them anyway, I'd much rather you just tell me which combination you want me to log (if any).

             

             

            EDIT 2: I just did more testing and discovered that it has nothing to do with the chipset drivers being installed or not; rather it is all dependent on resolution of the HDMI output.  If the horizontal resolution of the HDMI output is greater than 1360 pixels, then it will output a chroma lower than 4:4:4 over the HDMI.  If the horizontal resolution is 1360 pixels or less, then it will output at full 4:4:4 chroma.

             

            However, it gets really weird if you include the VGA.  Let's say the HDMI is outputting at 1680x1050.  If you unplug the HDMI and plug in VGA, no matter what resolution you set the VGA output to, even 800x600, it will be outputting a chroma lower than 4:4:4 over VGA.  If you then remove the VGA, plug the HDMI back in, set the HDMI output resolution to 1280x1024, unplug the HDMI, and then plug in the VGA, the VGA will be outputting at full 4:4:4 chroma.

             

            Even weirder is that, when the VGA is outputting a chroma lower than 4:4:4, while leaving the VGA plugged in and the laptop lid closed, you can even shut down windows, open the lid to press the power button, quickly close the lid so that video is output over VGA, and the chroma will STILL be lower than 4:4:4.  It seems to stay that way until you turn on the laptop with only the HDMI plugged in and the lid closed (so it'll output the video to HDMI while booting up) and set the horizontal resolution to 1360 or lower.

             

             

            EDIT 3: For extra clarification, without the chipset drivers installed, the maximum available resolution was 1280x1024.  When the chipset drivers were installed, the 965 chipset would automatically output at the external display's native resolution, which in this case is 1920x1080.  This is why I initially thought that the lack of 4:4:4 chroma was related to whether or not the chipset driver was installed or not.

             

            Also, I am quite sure that it is not an issue with the external display itself.  I only have access to a single other PC (which is a desktop PC) with HDMI output, and on said PC the HDMI output only sends video, not audio.  Nevertheless, with this desktop PC (that is not using Intel graphics) I can get a full 4:4:4 chroma at 1920x1080 over either the HDMI and/or the VGA on the exact same external display that I've been referring to (said external display is the only display I have access to that has an HDMI input).

            • 3. Re: Cannot get 4:4:4 chroma on 965GMA with VGA or HDMI
              Diego_Intel

              Is there a particular way or steps to replicate this issue?

              I tried this with a laptop featuring the 965GM controller, Microsoft* Windows* 7 Ultimate SP1, a monitor connected through VGA at 1920x1080 (no HDMI connection on the laptop). The driver installed is 8.14.10.1930 and zoomed at the png file you posted above with no luck.

              When testing the external VGA display was the only one active.

              • 4. Re: Cannot get 4:4:4 chroma on 965GMA with VGA or HDMI
                NintendoManiac64

                Did you read my edits in my last post?  I provided the exact order of operation that replicates the issue.  It seems to be related directly to the HDMI, which means that testing on a laptop without HDMI out will most likely not replicate the issue.

                 

                Regarding the PNG image, make sure you are not zooming the image itself.  The photo I posted is an extreme camera close-up of the same image being shown without any zoom. (the easiest way to achieve this is to open the image in MSPaint since, by deault, the image is not zoomed nor scaled in any way).

                • 5. Re: Cannot get 4:4:4 chroma on 965GMA with VGA or HDMI
                  Diego_Intel

                  Let me check further on this and get back to you then. I'll let you know my findings.

                  • 6. Re: Cannot get 4:4:4 chroma on 965GMA with VGA or HDMI
                    NintendoManiac64

                    I greatly appreciate you looking into the issue and look forward to your findings.

                     

                    And for reference, I would be glad to even record a video showing the issue if all else fails - though I will probably need to use a magnifying glass for the chroma issue to be visible on-camera.

                    • 7. Re: Cannot get 4:4:4 chroma on 965GMA with VGA or HDMI
                      Diego_Intel

                      Could you please test again after updating the BIOS of the system you have using the following URL:

                      http://www.dell.com/support/drivers/us/en/19/driverdetails?driverid=R205675

                       

                      Have you tested using the latest driver provided by DELL for your system?

                       

                      In addition, do you have an equivalent picture of what his system looks like when it’s properly displaying the chroma?

                       

                      And just to confirm, what segment of the picture do you see the lines on, the first/second/third/all or just the "upper-left" side of the image?  Is this just for the red, or other colors show this too? 

                      • 8. Re: Cannot get 4:4:4 chroma on 965GMA with VGA or HDMI
                        NintendoManiac64

                        I updated the BIOS, but that didn't change the result.

                         

                        I used the Dell Studio 1535 iGP drivers from Dell's website, but they didn't make a difference. (Note that they only supply drivers for Vista 64bit; I had to run the installer in Vista compatibility mode for it to install)

                         

                        Also, I don't think I made it clear, but when the HDMI is set to, say, 1360x768, the VGA will have full 4:4:4 chroma at ANY resolution, including those above 1360 pixels (such as 1920x1080).

                         

                        As for the questions regarding the test image that I use, the following two photos should answer them.  I've uploaded the photos to an external image host due to their large size and because, due to the nature of the issue, I did not want to resize nor re-compress the images (I mearly used the lossless JPEG crop function in XnView):

                         

                        Full 4:4:4 chroma:

                        http://i4.minus.com/iUmjXcn1Hoa9o.JPG

                         

                        Reduced chroma:

                        http://i3.minus.com/ibuimECNS7UgIy.JPG

                         

                        And lastly, just a heads up, I did not make the test image that I've been using; all credit for that image should go to this member at AVS Forum:

                        Official 4:4:4 / Chroma Subsampling Thread - Page 3

                        • 9. Re: Cannot get 4:4:4 chroma on 965GMA with VGA or HDMI
                          Diego_Intel

                          It seems that in fact there is a limitation on the driver that has been release for this mature controller. however, as you may know the software life cycle for this product has reached its end as this product has reached its End of Interactive Support, so Intel no longer provides interactive support for this product via telephone, chat or e-mail and will no longer provide any future software updates to support new operating systems or improve compatibility and functionality with third party devices and software products.