UK HD freeview stutter HD4000 graphics

[SHath]

Hi,

I am using a BGT3620 and am noticing occasional stuttering in HD freeview channels on Windows Media Center in the UK. It seems to happen a lot in wide panning shots. Watching Formula 1 on the BBC really shows this up. There are several threads discussing this issue with no solution. Recorded live HD shows the same. If I bring up the MCE info (411 then the info button) the frame rate seems to jump form 50hz to 25hz and back causing the stutter. I have switched off all the post processing in the graphics driver (helped a little) and my signal is strong - I live 2 miles from the transmitter. Playback of Blu-ray and HD .mkv files are fine.

System spec:

Intel i3 3225 with HD4000 graphics (latest driver)

Asus H77 based motherboard

Blackgold BGT3620 dual channel HD freeview card

4Gig RAM

1TB WD Green hard drive

Other forums discussing the same issue

http://www.thegreenbutton.tv/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=2496 http://www.thegreenbutton.tv/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=2496

http://experts.windows.com/w/experts_wiki/71.aspx?Sort=MostRecent&PageIndex=1# comments http://experts.windows.com/w/experts_wiki/71.aspx?Sort=MostRecent&PageIndex=1# comments

http://www.avforums.com/forums/freeview/1698918-freeview-hd-micro-stutter.html http://www.avforums.com/forums/freeview/1698918-freeview-hd-micro-stutter.html

Can you help in this? Watching HD Freeview with the the stutter is really annoying.

Thanks

[SHath]

Well, after many hours of messing around with drivers, screen resolutions driver settings etc, I concluded that Intel HD graphics (or its software) is still not up to the task. I tried to watch a Blu-ray film last night and the audio was out of sync by over 50 milli seconds. It was fixed by installing an AMD HD6450 that I had in another PC. It is a real shame as I had purchased the i3 3225 for its graphics to run my Media Center PC with minimal noise and heat.

[DArce]

If you can help us to troubleshoot this issue, please provide the following information to start with it:

What is the version of the drivers that you have been testing with? and what is the model of the motherboard?

Additionally please copy and paste the dxdiag report from the affected system.

[PLee26]

Hi

It sounds like a frame rate issue.

For the UK your monitor and graphics card needs to run at 50Hz, typically by default it runs at 60Hz. To get 50 frames into 60 an uneven number of frames have to be duplicated, and this causes a slight judder every second.

You will need to set up a custom profile to get 50Hz, this used to be possible on older drivers, but since Intel has dumbed down everything to a stupid Metro style all white space interface, the customisation options are missing.

Without being able to change your refresh rate to 50Hz you will never be judder free. Other graphics cards will let you make these setting changes, but oddly Intel who market the integrated solution perfect for media what with their QuickSync technology etc, seem to complete ignore that a big chunk of the world needs refresh rates other than 60Hz for judder free playback.

You will probably find most YouTube clips and other video on the internet has no judder, this is because they will all be 30fps or 30Hz which goes evenly into 60Hz.

For Blu-ray you need to set your monitor 24Hz or more precisely 23.976Hz, something that Intel graphics often don't allow or do not do accurately. This means over the course of a film the audio and video can move out of sync.

On a TV via HDMI you have 60Hz, 50Hz, 24Hz all supported and switched to automatically, however on a computer you need to make changes manually based on what you are watching.

Sometimes a TV is the best option for watching films.

Could Intel tell us please on this rubbish new all white graphics property interface how we set custom refreshes, and when will the bug of the monitor not going in to sleep mode be fixed. Or should I send you my extra electricity bill costs because my monitor is on constantly!

Regards

Phil

[SHath]

Hi,

Sorry, I am running it on a 40" TV at 50hz. The TV does support all the other modes as the HD6450 runs them with no issues (that I have noticed). I will get the dxdiag soon.

[DArce]

Thank you skutterbob, I will be waiting for the information.

[SHath]

I am using an ASUS P8H77-M Pro motherboard and the Intel 9.18.10.3165 drivers. The dxdiag is:

------------------

System Information------------------Time of this report: 8/5/2013, 22:36:16 Machine name: MEDIA-PC Operating System: Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit (6.1, Build 7601) Service Pack 1 (7601.win7sp1_gdr.130318-1533) Language: English (Regional Setting: English)System Manufacturer: System manufacturer System Model: System Product Name BIOS: BIOS Date: 12/10/12 11:21:53 Ver: 10.05 Processor: Intel(R) Core(TM) i3-3225 CPU @ 3.30GHz (4 CPUs), ~3.3GHz Memory: 4096MB RAMAvailable OS Memory: 3788MB RAM Page File: 1580MB used, 5993MB available Windows Dir: C:\Windows DirectX Version: DirectX 11DX Setup Parameters: Not found User DPI Setting: Using System DPI System DPI Setting: 96 DPI (100 percent) DWM DPI Scaling: Disabled DxDiag Version: 6.01.7601.17514 32bit Unicode

------------

DxDiag Notes------------ Display Tab 1: No problems found. Sound Tab 1: No problems found. Input Tab: No problems found.

--------------------

DirectX Debug Levels--------------------Direct3D: 0/4 (retail)DirectDraw: 0/4 (retail)DirectInput: 0/5 (retail)DirectMusic: 0/5 (retail)DirectPlay: 0/9 (retail)DirectSound: 0/5 (retail)DirectShow: 0/6 (retail)

---------------

Display Devices--------------- Card name: Intel(R) HD Graphics 4000 Manufacturer: Intel Corporation Chip type: Intel(R) HD Graphics Family DAC type: Internal Device Key: Enum\PCI\VEN_8086&DEV_0162&SUBSYS_84CA1043&REV_09 Display Memory: 1760 MB Dedicated Memory: 256 MB Shared Memory: 1504 MB Current Mode: 1920 x 1080 (32 bit) (50Hz) Monitor Name: Generic PnP Monitor Monitor Model: SAMSUNG Monitor Id: SAM033A Native Mode: 1920 x 1080(p) (60.000Hz) Output Type: HDMI Driver Name: igdumdim64.dll,igd10iumd64.dll,igd10iumd64.dll,igdumdim32,igd10iumd32,igd10iumd32Driver File Version: 9.18.0010.3165 (English) Driver Version: 9.18.10.3165 DDI Version: 11 Driver Model: WDDM 1.1 Driver Attributes: Final Retail Driver Date/Size: 5/7/2013 17:22:46, 8632320 bytes WHQL Logo'd: Yes WHQL Date Stamp: Device Identifier: {D7B78E66-4222-11CF-AE7F-C0A4B4C2C435} Vendor ID: 0x8086 Device ID: 0x0162 SubSys ID: 0x84CA1043 Revision ID: 0x0009 Driver Strong Name: oem50.inf:IntelGfx.NTamd64.6.1:iIVBD_w7:9.18.10.3165:pci\ven_8086&dev_0162 Rank Of Driver: 00E02001 Video Accel: ModeMPEG2_A ModeMPEG2_C ModeWMV9_C ModeVC1_C Deinterlace Caps: {BF752EF6-8CC4-457A-BE1B-08BD1CAEEE9F}: Format(In/Out)=(YUY2,YUY2) Frames(Prev/Fwd/Back)=(0,0,1) Caps=VideoProcess_YUV2RGB VideoProcess_StretchX VideoProcess_StretchY VideoProcess_AlphaBlend DeinterlaceTech_EdgeFiltering {335AA36E-7884-43A4-9C91-7F87FAF3E37E}: Format(In/Out)=(YUY2,YUY2) Frames(Prev/Fwd/Back)=(0,0,0) Caps=VideoProcess_YUV2RGB VideoProcess_StretchX VideoProcess_StretchY VideoProcess_AlphaBlend DeinterlaceTech_BOBVerticalStretch {5A54A0C9-C7EC-4BD9-8EDE-F3C75DC4393B}: Format(In/Out)=(YUY2,YUY2) Frames(Prev/Fwd/Back)=(0,0,0) Caps=VideoProcess_YUV2RGB VideoProcess_StretchX VideoProcess_StretchY VideoProcess_AlphaBlend {BF752EF6-8CC4-457A-BE1B-08BD1CAEEE9F}: Format(In/Out)=(UYVY,YUY2) Frames(Prev/Fwd/Back)=(0,0,1) Caps=VideoProcess_YUV2RGB VideoProcess_StretchX VideoProcess_StretchY VideoProcess_AlphaBlend DeinterlaceTech_EdgeFiltering {335AA36E-7884-43A4-9C91-7F87FAF3E37E}: Format(In/Out)=(UYVY,YUY2) Frames(Prev/Fwd/Back)=(0,0,0) Caps=VideoProcess_YUV2RGB VideoProcess_StretchX VideoProcess_StretchY VideoProcess_AlphaBlend DeinterlaceTech_BOBVerticalStretch {5A54A0C9-C7EC-4BD9-8EDE-F3C75DC4393B}: Format(In/Out)=(UYVY,YUY2) Frames(Prev/Fwd/Back)=(0,0,0) Caps=VideoProcess_YUV2RGB VideoProcess_StretchX VideoProcess_StretchY VideoProcess_AlphaBlend {BF752EF6-8CC4-457A-BE1B-08BD1CAEEE9F}: Format(In/Out)=(YV12,YUY2) Frames(Prev/Fwd/Back)=(0,0,1) Caps=VideoProcess_YUV2RGB VideoProcess_StretchX VideoProcess_StretchY VideoProcess_AlphaBlend DeinterlaceTech_EdgeFiltering {335AA36E-7884-43A4-9C91-7F87FAF3E37E}: Format(In/Out)=(YV12,YUY2) Frames(Prev/Fwd/Back)=(0,0,0) Caps=VideoProcess_YUV2RGB VideoProcess_StretchX VideoProcess_StretchY VideoProcess_AlphaBlend DeinterlaceTech_BOBVerticalStretch {5A54A0C9-C7EC-4BD9-8EDE-F3C75DC4393B}: Format(In/Out)=(YV12,YUY2) Frames(Prev/Fwd/Back)=(0,0,0) Caps=VideoProcess_YUV2RGB VideoProcess_StretchX VideoProcess_StretchY VideoProcess_AlphaBlend {BF752EF6-8CC4-457A-BE1B-08BD1CAEEE9F}: Format(In/Out)=(NV12,YUY2) Frames(Prev/Fwd/Back)=(0,0,1) Caps=VideoProcess_YUV2RGB VideoProcess_StretchX VideoProcess_StretchY VideoProcess_AlphaBlend DeinterlaceTech_EdgeFiltering {335AA36E-7884-43A4-9C91-7F87FAF3E37E}: Format(In/Out)=(NV12,YUY2) Frames(Prev/Fwd/Back)=(0,0,0) Caps=VideoProcess_YUV2RGB VideoProcess_StretchX VideoProcess_StretchY VideoProcess_AlphaBlend DeinterlaceTech_BOBVerticalStretch {5A54A0C9-C7EC-4BD9-8EDE-F3C75DC4393B}: Format(In/Out)=(NV12,YUY2) Frames(Prev/Fwd/Back)=(0,0,0) Caps=VideoProcess_YUV2RGB VideoProcess_StretchX VideoProcess_StretchY VideoProcess_AlphaBlend {BF752EF6-8CC4-457A-BE1B-08BD1CAEEE9F}: Format(In/Out)=(IMC1,YUY2) Frames(Prev/Fwd/Back)=(0,0,1) Caps=VideoProcess_YUV2RGB VideoProcess_StretchX VideoProcess_StretchY VideoProcess_AlphaBlend DeinterlaceTech_EdgeFiltering {335AA36E-7884-43A4-9C91-7F87FAF3E37E}: Format(In/Out)=(IMC1,YUY2) Frames(Prev/Fwd/Back)=(0,0,0) Caps=VideoProcess_YUV2RGB VideoProcess_StretchX VideoProcess_StretchY VideoProcess_AlphaBlend DeinterlaceTech_BOBVerticalStretch {5A54A0C9-C7EC-4BD9-8EDE-F3C75DC4393B}: Format(In/Out)=(IMC1,YUY2) Frames(Prev/Fwd/Back...

[DArce]

Please test updating the system BIOS to version 1101 and use the latest Management Engine driver 8.1.0.1263 that are provided by your computer manufacturer.

If the issue persists, please also test using the driver 9.17.10.2884 that is provided by Asus* for this motherboard.

All these updates are available on the following URL:

http://www.asus.com/Motherboards/P8H77M_PRO/# support_Download http://www.asus.com/Motherboards/P8H77M_PRO/# support_Download

[SHath]

Ok, tested last night. The BIOS was on the previous release and so I had not bothered as there looked like there was no point according to the release notes. When I did upgrade, windows reinstalled all the SATA devices. The IME driver was already as suggested. Blu-ray playback seems better, though as it was late, I did not get the chance to test it fully. Unfortunalty I had deleted my Formula 1 recording to test the HD freeview stutter. I will see if BBC HD has another sporting event to test on, otherwise I might have to wait until the next race at the end of the month. Thanks.

[DArce]

Alright, please keep me posted when you have a chance to test this out. Thank you for your feedback.

[SHath]

Hi, sorry about the long delay in getting back. In the meantime I have done some more testing and completely re-installed my PC with the latest drivers. I am still seeing the same stutter on HD freeview. The frame rate on BBC1 HD seems to jump from 50hz to 25hz and back, causing a frame drop. It more obvious with the Intel HD4000 than the AMD HD6450, but hey both suffer. It seems that the AMD software handles it better. Live sport is the worst in long panning footage, but I have noticed that it also happens in more fixed shots as well. I not going to keep switching graphics cards for the moment as this caused issues with windows and concentrate on the Intel HD4000.

[DArce]

Could you please confirm that the issue persists with the driver posted here?

https://downloadcenter.intel.com/Detail_Desc.aspx?agr=Y&DwnldID=23106&lang=eng&OSVersion=Windows%207%20(64-bit)*&DownloadType=Drivers Download Center

Have you checked if you see this issue with recorded broadcast or any other source of video? We would like to get a clear idea of what you actually see, so you may share it with us and this would make testing a lot easier.

[SHath]

Hi, I have installed the new drivers and tried a recording of a BBC1 HD Formula 1 race. It still shows the stutter and is repeatable. It would be good if I can get the recording to you - or part of it as it is over two hours long. As I mentioned before, it happens more with wide panning shots of live TV.

[SHath]

In your response to checking other sources of video, all others seem fine.

[DArce]

Let me check for additional information on this and give you more troubleshooting on this.

[SHath]

Great - thanks.

[DArce]

You might try to change or create a custom modes to a 50Hz refresh rate to troubleshoot this issue.

You can find Custom modes by manually opening the CustomModeApp located in the Windows\System32 folder

So basically, use the resolution you are using by now, but add a refresh rate value of 50Hz and then select it from the Graphics control interface under display settings.

Be aware that altering modes and setting a custom mode that does not comply with the limitations of your display can result in system instability and possible display hardware failure, so your system in fact needs to support 50 Hz.

[SHath]

The standard refresh rate is already set at 50hz as is required by UK television. I tried a custom mode but the program just wanted to overwrite a mode that already existed. My display is 1920x1080 on a Samsung 40 inch LCD television and the PC is connected by HDMI. It only changes refresh rate when viewing Blu-Ray films.

[SHath]

Hi,

I have uploaded a YouTube video showing the 50/25Hz jump. Keep an eye on the 50 at the bottom of the screen

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJI1LlUpKW8 HD Freeview stutter with Intel HD4000 graphics - YouTube

[DArce]

1. What mode were you trying to create? And what software are you viewing Blu-Rays with?

2. From your previous reply, should we deduce that the properly maintains 50hz refresh rate, but when you are watching Blu-Ray films with an specific software it changes? If so, what software is it?

3. Concerning that video, what was being recorded there and what software was being used in that other test?

[SHath]

Hi,

1. 50hz at 1080p. Which is the screen resolution and frequency the system is already at. I use Arcsoft Total Media Theatre 6 to view Blu-rays.

2. Arcsoft Total Media Theatre 6 auto changes the frequency, then changes it back to 50hz when the Blu-Ray has finished. The PC had a full restart before playing the HD recorded program to make sure it was playing the correct frequency.

3. It was a live Formula 1 race on the BBC 1 HD channel on UK Freeview that is transmitted over the air. I live two miles from the TV transmitter. It was a recording being played in Windows 7 Media Center and I used my iPhone to record the footage from the television so I could upload it to YouTube. That is why the picture looks grainy. Windows Media Center has a diagnostic mode that is viewable if you press 411 and then the Info button on a Media Center compatable remote control. I did not want the video to be blocked because of copyright, that is why there is no sound and you can only see the diagnostic info.

I get no problems watching live or recorded standard definition television programs.