13 Replies Latest reply on Apr 25, 2013 3:08 PM by Razvan Neagoe

    Intel P67 support for TRIM (Windows 7 Ultimate x64)

    Razvan Neagoe

      I have a Gigabyte motherboard (GA-P67A-D3-B3 v1.0) with latest firmware (F7 as of April 2013). I've read that some folks in other online communities (Anandtech, tweaktown) managed to alter their BIOSes and implement support for TRIM in RAID0 (on the two SATA3 interfaces).

      I've asked Gigabyte support for an official BIOS update that would permit this.

      Here's the reply:

      "

      Thank you for your kindly mail and inquiry. Since TRIM command depends on the SATA controller, and according to GA-P67A-D3-B3(rev. 1.0) chipset, it uses PCH and which does not support TRIM command. We are sorry that it cannot be support TRIM command by update BIOS version, since it is the chipset specification.

       

      If you still have any further questions bla bla

       

      Regards,

      GIGABYTE"


      What do you guys think about this answer?

      I thought I have trim support, the SSD supports it (Corsair Force GT 120 GB) and I got "0" after "fsutil behavior query DisableDeleteNotify".

      I thought that the trim command is passed by the operating system (Win7 Ultimate x64 in my case; SSD is hooked on SATA3, AHCI) to the SSD. OK, in RAID0 I understood that it can't be used, but didn't know that PCH (Platform Controller Hub) can't do that even with a single SSD.

        • 1. Re: Intel P67 support for TRIM (Windows 7 Ultimate x64)
          flybelowtheradar

          Uhm, seems to me that all they're saying is that BIOS doesn't do trim.  Offhand, I wouldn't expect it to.  BIOS doesn't care about what you do with the disks, it just makes sure they talk to the board, seem reasonable, or have I missed the point?

           

          DisableDeleteNotify = 0 means Windows sends "hints" to the disk controller that blocks are not being used and/or empty.  The driver is what actually carries out trim. Garbage Collection is carried out by the disk controller, not the driver.   There are some drivers that support trim in RAID 0.  Offhand, I don't know which ones.

           

          Any of this help?

          • 2. Re: Intel P67 support for TRIM (Windows 7 Ultimate x64)
            Razvan Neagoe

            "Uhm, seems to me that all they're saying is that BIOS doesn't do trim."


            To me, they seem to say that the chipset on my board doesn't do trim! Look here:


            "Since TRIM command depends on the SATA controller, and according to GA-P67A-D3-B3(rev. 1.0) chipset, it uses PCH and which does not support TRIM command. We are sorry that it cannot be support TRIM command by update BIOS version, since it is the chipset specification."

             

            Here's a webpage about modding BIOS components (OROM) to enable trim on RAID0 architecture:

            AnandTech | TRIM & RAID-0 SSD Arrays Work With Intel 6-Series Motherboards Too

             

            My question does not go that far. I just want to know if right now, with unmodded stuff, I have trim or not! From the Gigabyte support person, it seems that I don't have trim. But English is not my native language, and I'm not an expert neither in SATA nor in SSD intricacies, that's why I'm asking you guys.

            • 3. Re: Intel P67 support for TRIM (Windows 7 Ultimate x64)
              flybelowtheradar

              Uh-huh, upon re-reading that, I see what you mean.  I just don't belive it.  The link you posted appears to be about updating the Intel RAID ROM on the board.  That is something totally outside of the Operating System.

               

              It's funny, Win8 has been out since October, I do have a computer that runs Win7 with an SSD, but I let my girlfriend use that one, and I don't remember how defragging (trim) worked on Win7 with an SSD.  Getting old is not fun.

               

              You know you can try the defrag tool, if it takes more than a minute to run, stop it, it's doing a HDD defrag, and not trimming.  If it takes mere seconds to complete, it's trimming.  Even if it does start doing a HDD type defrag, stopping it is OK.  One partial defrag isn't going to sap much life from the drive.

               

              Make sure your Windows Experience Index is up-to-date.  That's the way Windows knows what kind of drive you have, and should adjust settings appropriately.

               

              Another thing to check is to query whether DisableDeleteNotify (fsutil.exe behavior query DisableDeleteNotify) is zero or not.  If it's zero, the system sends trim hints, and that's what you want.

               

              Ignore everything I wrote, I am not paying attention this morning, sorry.

               

              Is any of this helpful?

              • 4. Re: Intel P67 support for TRIM (Windows 7 Ultimate x64)
                Razvan Neagoe

                That ROM is part of the BIOS update file, that's why I was asking Gigabyte about BIOS updates.

                I already tried that command and got "0", but it's not a proof of trim being done, it's just a posibility...

                Until I find some expert answer that explains precisely the compatibility between PCH P67 and trim, when I'll get home (I'm at work now) I will try this:

                CyberShadow/trimcheck · GitHub

                 

                Message was edited by: Razvan Neagoe

                • 5. Re: Intel P67 support for TRIM (Windows 7 Ultimate x64)
                  Razvan Neagoe

                  I have tested with Mr. Vladimir Panteleev's freeware utility TRIMCHECK v0.4, and I can say that Gigabyte support is wrong: P67 chipset does allow the trim command to get from the OS to the drive, and the drive executes trimming.

                   

                  Roger, Mr. Panteleev, we copy you on the ground. You've got a bunch of guys about to turn blue. We're breathing again, thanks a lot!

                  (without googleing, can someone say where that reply is from? ;-)

                  • 6. Re: Intel P67 support for TRIM (Windows 7 Ultimate x64)
                    flybelowtheradar

                    You mean I have to remember?  Uhm, Mission Control to some Apollo mission, when they landed on the Moon or the one that had the problem en route.  Congratulations on finding out the trim does work on your chipset.

                    • 7. Re: Intel P67 support for TRIM (Windows 7 Ultimate x64)
                      Fernando

                      Razvan Neagoe schrieb:

                       

                      My question does not go that far. I just want to know if right now, with unmodded stuff, I have trim or not! From the Gigabyte support person, it seems that I don't have trim..

                      What you certainly want to know is, if TRIM is active within your P67 RAID0 array, if you are using "unmodded stuff", and the answer is "No!" The TRIM command will be sent out by the OS Win7 or Win8 (detectable by the command "fsutil behavior query DisableDeleteNotify"), but does not pass through the Intel P67 SATA RAID Controller, if your BIOS contains an original (= untouched) Intel RAID ROM module. Besides the used Intel RAID drivers it is mainly the Intel RAID ROM module of the BIOS, which is responsable for the "TRIM in RAID0" feature. Unfortunately the currently available actual Intel RAID ROM modules natively do only support this feature for Intel 7-Series chipsets.

                      Nevertheless it is possible to get Trim support within your P67 chipset RAID0 array. All you have to do is to replace the original Intel RAID ROM module by a slightly modified version, where the TRIM in RAID0 support has been enabled. The same is possible for Intel Z68 and even for P55 RAID0 systems. All this has been already proven very often by special TRIM tests (manually with a hex editor or by using the tool TRIM Check).

                      So the answer you got from Gigabyte was definitively wrong. It is possible to get TRIM working within RAID0 arrays of P67 and Z68 chipset systems, but this requires a slightly modified Intel RAID ROM resp. EFI SataDriver module  within the BIOS..

                      1 of 1 people found this helpful
                      • 8. Re: Intel P67 support for TRIM (Windows 7 Ultimate x64)
                        Razvan Neagoe

                        Fernando, just yesterday I have followed your guidelines written in some other forum, and modded my F7 BIOS. Haven't tested it yet, though... I don't know how important is the file order in the BIOS stack, because CBROM left the SATA file someplace else than in the original BIOS. MEMINIT is where it should be, I've compared original and modded BIOS in the hex editor.

                         

                        Flybelowtheradar: yep, that was CapCom Charlie Duke speaking to Neil Armstrong and Buzz Aldrin, immediately after their report of landing the first manned vehicle on another celestial body.

                        • 9. Re: Intel P67 support for TRIM (Windows 7 Ultimate x64)
                          Fernando

                          @ Razvan Neagoe:

                          If you have any questions regarding BIOS modding, please ask them within the Forum, where you found the guide.

                          The intention of this thread is to avoid any BIOS modding regarding TRIM in RAID0. What we want are officially released Intel RAID ROM modules, which natively do support the TRIM in RAID0 feature for all Intel P67 chipsets (and hopefully for some others).

                          • 10. Re: Intel P67 support for TRIM (Windows 7 Ultimate x64)
                            joe_intel

                            Thanks to all of you for posting.

                             

                            Please note this subject was posted in the Intel® SSDs forum regarding a third party SSD and the Intel® P67 chipset. For assistance with the Intel® chipset you may want to post in the Intel® Chipset Communities.

                             

                            http://communities.intel.com/community/tech/chipsets

                             

                            Razvan, the Intel® P67 chipset should be able to support TRIM on standalone drives; however, only the Intel(R) 77 chipsets support TRIM under RAID 0 with IRST 11.6 or higher.

                             

                            Message was edited by: Joe_Intel

                            • 11. Re: Intel P67 support for TRIM (Windows 7 Ultimate x64)
                              Fernando

                              Hello Joe,

                              you are right regarding the location of this thread. It would have been better placed within the "Chipset" section of this Forum, because Razvan's problem (no TRIM support within his P67 RAID0) is definitively not caused by Intel SSDs.

                              On the other hand I do not really understand your advice to contact the mainboard and/or the SSD manufacturer regarding the missing TRIM support within Razvan's Intel P67 RAID0 array. As you surely know, it is just the hex code of the Intel RAID ROM/SataDriver module, which determines, if a special Intel chipset is supported by the "TRIM in RAID0" feature or not. Since the Intel RAID ROM/SataDriver modules are developed and released by Intel and nobody else, Razvan's question can only be answered by Intel.

                              • 12. Re: Intel P67 support for TRIM (Windows 7 Ultimate x64)
                                joe_intel

                                Fernando thanks a lot for pointing that out. You are correct, it is my bad since I did not pay attention to the RAID0 part; I will correct my response above.

                                • 13. Re: Intel P67 support for TRIM (Windows 7 Ultimate x64)
                                  Razvan Neagoe

                                  Joe, thanks for your interest in my problem. Fernando, thanks for pointing out important facts ;-)

                                  I'm sorry for posting this in the wrong community. Joe, if you can move this to the relevant neighborhood, please do this.

                                  I have my answer, P67 does allow trim to be passed as I have tested the final result.

                                  Regarding RAID0, I will test it soon, hopefully, but post the result in the right place.