1 2 3 Previous Next 44 Replies Latest reply on Jul 29, 2013 5:16 PM by Malini

    MoBo dp43tf, 2TB WD-HD not detected in cold start

    Purgatorio

      I recently stepped into a problem with my HTPC wich reduces to the above mentioned configuration: the HDD is pefectly recognized by the BIOS SATA driver ver 1.10.05 of the latest BIOS (NBG4310H.86A.0107.EB.EXE) when warm-booting, but is not -at least not completely- detected when cold booting. If I stop the Bios with "Pause" for a second early enough (before device detection: the SATA driver displaying dots ...) the drive is also recognized.

       

      I checked and changed the power supply line, I tried all the HDD PreDelays (which seemed to have no influence at all - no IDE devices?), I switched all meaningful alternatives (esp. hiding/displaying extension board text) in the BIOS, and googled, all to no avail.

       

      There is just one detail: the SATA driver always displays "06 Ports, 01 Devices" and either the HDD-code or "No device", the BIOS on the contrary shows either also the HDD code or -thats the hint for an existing and only partially recognized drive- a <totally blank entry> where the HDD code usually is, whereas for all other ports "No device " is shown.

       

      Usually the HTPC is just suspended but in the rare case of deep trouble it has to be powered off (no reset button) and so the problem came up. Are there any suggestions, please?

       

      Thank you in advance!

      Purgatorio

        • 1. Re: MoBo dp43tf, 2TB WD-HD not detected in cold start
          Purgatorio

          Bump 

           

          Is there something wrong with my question, have I missed something?

          Purgatorio

           

          Message was edited by: Purgatorio (Typos!)

          • 2. Re: MoBo dp43tf, 2TB WD-HD not detected in cold start
            Flying_Kiwi

            Purgatorio wrote:


            Usually the HTPC is just suspended but in the rare case of deep trouble it has to be powered off (no reset button) and so the problem came up.

            But you must have cold booted the PC at some stage after fitting the HDD.... I'm certainly hoping you didn't attempt to fit it while the pc was powered. I presume it worked OK then so the issue now is what has changed since.

             

            You've not provided much info about the rest of your system. Which PSU are you using and do you have another that you can test the system with? It sounds like you've changed alot of the settings in the BIOS so set things back to normal again by going into the BIOS and setting load defaults.

             

            Before going any further, make sure your valuable data is backed up from this HDD onto external media (such a burning a DVD or using an external HDD or even a pendrive - the latter being the least desirable for very important data). Drive manufacturers commonly provide utility software which you can usually download from the manufacturers website. This software will have a diagnostic function which can be run to test the drive - have a look at the manufacturers website and take it from there. A few ideas to try.

            1 of 1 people found this helpful
            • 3. Re: MoBo dp43tf, 2TB WD-HD not detected in cold start
              Purgatorio

              Thank you very much for your answer, Flying_Kiwi! You are perfectly right about distrusting my problem's specs, but the truth is, I did not cold boot to this 2TB-WD-HDD after fitting it, but to a second HDD containing a WIN-XP installation wich in turn I successfully migrated to the new drive and so my system started only warm booting from the new drive. Hence it took a while before I realised this bad cold boot situation which I am rather certain to suffer right from the fitting. Up to now I am perfectly convinced that this issue is by no means new but is inherent to the combination of this drive (WDC20EARS-00J2GB0) and this mobo.

               

              Since an even small delay before(!) but not after the detection process suffices to have the drive detected completely I thought I might rightfully assume the problem beeing with some SATA driver detection timing (why else would there be a thing like "HDD pre-delay" in BIOS which unfortunately does not seem to work with SATA?), assuming the HDD being innocent.

               

              The PSU is an Enermax 425W, CPU is Intel Core2Duo E7300@2.66, graphics is HIS Radeon 4650, and there is a Terratec DVB-S2 PCI card. Memory is 2x 2GB. Just for the moment I do not have a spare PSU at hand -my DIY period being rather long gone, so I have to postpone this check.

               

              Although I am perfectly confident with what I changed in the BIOS, I will try to load the default settings and post back.(been there, done that)

               

              Many thanks for your suggestions.

              Purgatorio

               

              Message was edited by: Purgatorio (correction of HW details)

              • 4. Re: MoBo dp43tf, 2TB WD-HD not detected in cold start
                Flying_Kiwi

                Purgatorio wrote:


                Although I am perfectly confident with what I changed in the BIOS, I will try to load the default settings and post back.

                Don't forget to check out the manufacturer provided software for your drive as well - there are a number here: http://support.wdc.com/product/download.asp?groupid=608&lang=en including alignment software for Win XP use - have a read. They may even have newer firmware to address this issue if you email them about the issue. HDD manufacturers don't normally publicise firmware updates and usually only release such firmware on an as needed basis.

                 

                Although SATA drives are supposed to be hot pluggable (according to the specs), that's really intended for drives used in caddies (which plug and unplug the power and data connections quickly and at the same time) or eSATA external drives. By all means if you had a 24/7 mission critical setup you could try manually plugging it in as you have but its preferrable to have the system powered off when connecting and disconnecting ordinary PC drives.

                 

                Your PSU should be well up to the task. You could install Intel Desktop Utilities and have a nosey at the bus voltages checking stability and that they're well within tolerance/what they should be just to rule out possible failure.

                • 5. Re: MoBo dp43tf, 2TB WD-HD not detected in cold start
                  Purgatorio

                  BTW, no, I did not "hot plug" my new SATA HDD, I carefully powered down my system, disconnected mains, safely installed the new drive, reconnected mains, booted to the old drive, migrated my system including WD-alignment, warm booted to BIOS, reconfigured the boot priority, and happily lived up to the first enforced power down. The first (rare!) booting troubles I ignored lightheartedly because at this time I used  a USB KB and ctrl-alt-del warm booted my system right away. Now I have a Bluetooth KB which only after successfully booting comes into action and so initiated my research.

                   

                  I think the software your link -thank you!- points to is of no relevance for my problem (HDD is already aligned, SMART state is OK), and I also made some corrections in my hardware description above which are of no importance, I believe.

                   

                  The true hard news comes here: loading "optimized defaults" in the BIOS enabled the detection! Specifically changing the entry "configure SATA as" from "IDE" to "AHCI" returned the imperfect behavior as described above!

                   

                  I am far from being able to estimate the importance of this BIOS setting for the performance of the WIN-XP drivers I carefully slipstreamed in my setup CD, but simply thought of AHCI being the proper entry for driving SATA HDDs in a state of the art manner. I would appreciate very much if you could point me to some relevant info concerning this question.

                   

                  Perhaps it is noteworthy to relate that there is no error message what so ever concerning the missing of a boot device. Thank you again, Flying_Kiwi, for your ideas and I certainly will also email WD about my problem.

                   

                  Regards

                  Purgatorio

                  • 6. Re: MoBo dp43tf, 2TB WD-HD not detected in cold start
                    Purgatorio

                    Due to impatience I learned it the hard way: "IDE" means "IDE and not SATA" also for WIN-XP, trying to install IDE drivers.

                    Purgatorio

                    • 7. Re: MoBo dp43tf, 2TB WD-HD not detected in cold start
                      Flying_Kiwi

                      Purgatorio wrote:

                       

                      BTW, no, I did not "hot plug" my new SATA HDD, I carefully powered down my system, disconnected mains, safely installed the new drive, reconnected mains, booted to the old drive, migrated my system including WD-alignment, warm booted to BIOS, reconfigured the boot priority, and happily lived up to the first enforced power down.

                      Thanks for clarifying that - I was concerned for a moment but you seem to have done it all how I would have. You mentioned the download I linked to is of no use though - did the HDD come with alignment software already preinstalled (you need this for Win XP although not newer versions of Windows)? If so, was it the latest and greatest version? My understanding is you either need to download it or set the jumpers on your drive accordingly have you seen this: http://www.wdc.com/wdproducts/library/Flyer/ENG/2178-771123.pdf ? I suspect this is where the issue lies.

                      • 8. Re: MoBo dp43tf, 2TB WD-HD not detected in cold start
                        Purgatorio

                        I am not able to recall all the details of migrating the OS, including several partitions, to the new "advanced format" drive but I perfectly remember to have done this with great dilligence and care for the selection of an EARS- instead of an EADS-type drive and furthermore the WD-Align software states NOW that all partitions are "perfectly aligned". Additionally I do not believe that this specific problem which can be stated without any reference to an installed OS or even to the "formatted" state of the HDD depends on this feature.

                         

                        The first answer of WD states the assumption that the mobo "may not be able to use the autospeed negotiation" which I cannot approve either because in warm booting the drive is recognized perfectly well. I will re-ask.

                         

                        May I, please, ask for further ideas, for the moment I am left clueless.

                        Purgatorio

                        • 9. Re: MoBo dp43tf, 2TB WD-HD not detected in cold start
                          Flying_Kiwi

                          Where did the alignment software come from (if not from the website I linked to) and did the software specify that multiple partitions were permitted off the bat (I think I read somewhere it was for a single, simple partition)? Why not have a basic single partition system just to rule out any 'complications' as being the cause and then you could introduce a more complicated arrangement later if successfull and see if that makes a difference?

                           

                          My hunch is that your problems are associated with this advanced format as the drive electronics are being recognised fine by the BIOS but whats on it isn't being recognised fine by the motherboard. Although I can't explain things beyond that, I think it makes sence to simplify things as much as possible to try and rule out as much as possible.

                          • 10. Re: MoBo dp43tf, 2TB WD-HD not detected in cold start
                            Purgatorio

                            - The alignment software certainly came from WD! I do not recall exactly if I downloaded it or if it was stored on the drive.

                            - I certainly considered all prescriptions for multiple partitions in the migration process (I prefer smaller chunks as 2TB are and separating OS from private data).

                            - Again certainly, I am aware of the troubles with inappropriate partitioning software (eg. avoiding PQMagic 8).

                            - The partitioning is validated freshly with the WD-program "WDAlign" and found to be "perfectly aligned", and the system runs fine when successfully booted, so I see no reason to tinker with the disk content.

                            - NO, the drive electronics are not "recognised fine" by the BIOS when COLD(!) booting. The BIOS-SATA-driver just "sees" one (01) device but cannot "recognize" it as a drive.

                            - BUT when WARM(!) booting (or when "pausing" for a moment before the detection in cold booting) the BIOS-SATA-driver "sees" one (01) device AND "recognizes" it as WDC20EARS drive.

                             

                            I hope I made my arguments clearly which lead me to a suspicion of the BIOS-SATA-driver being not patient enough for the HDD or the drive electronics beeing to slow for the BIOS-SATA-driver (both alternatives should not happen). Since there is at last the possibility to "recognise fine", I primarily hold the BIOS-SATA-driver as part of the BIOS to blame (what's with this "pre-delay" and SATA???).

                             

                            Where is my fault and is there hope left?
                            Purgatorio

                            • 11. Re: MoBo dp43tf, 2TB WD-HD not detected in cold start
                              Flying_Kiwi

                              Purgatorio wrote:

                               

                              - NO, the drive electronics are not "recognised fine" by the BIOS when COLD(!) booting. The BIOS-SATA-driver just "sees" one (01) device but cannot "recognize" it as a drive.

                              - BUT when WARM(!) booting (or when "pausing" for a moment before the detection in cold booting) the BIOS-SATA-driver "sees" one (01) device AND "recognizes" it as WDC20EARS drive.

                              Sorry, I missed that important point. It does then sound like a firmware issue that should be placed firmly in the hands of the manufacturer to address. If they can't come up with a firmware fix for it, perhaps they can replace the drive with a similar size one which doesn't have issues with your board. You could also try swapping SATA cables just to rule out a dodgy cable from being to blame.

                               

                              FWIW I use a 2 TB SATA Samsung Green drive on my (similar era) DG45ID (housed in an Antec MX-1 external eSATA/USB 2 case) without issue and connected via the eSATA port. Every time I boot the PC with the drive powered up, it's correctly detected in the BIOS.

                              • 12. Re: MoBo dp43tf, 2TB WD-HD not detected in cold start
                                Purgatorio

                                - I exchanged SATA cables already in a prior state of this troubleshooting (serial? really?).

                                - Following suggestion from WD I stripped the drive down to SATA 1, with no perceiveable consequences in the detection behavior.

                                - Furthermore WD says: "The fact that the problem is solved when you pause the boot seems to imply the issue is within the BIOS of your system."

                                - So you see I have the best of both worlds with my problem.  (to be honest: I am slightly more inclined to support the WD opinion)

                                 

                                I am convinced that the "Serial ATA AHCI Driver ver 1.10.05" of the latest available BIOS (NBG4310H.86A.0107.EB.EXE) which detects a device (in my case on port 0) but can identify it as a WDC20EARS only when this drive has been powered up early enough and  which installs "AHCI BIOS" afterwards is to blame.

                                 

                                Is there any information about the HDD pre-delay available? For SATA also?

                                Purgatorio

                                • 13. Re: MoBo dp43tf, 2TB WD-HD not detected in cold start
                                  Flying_Kiwi

                                  Purgatorio wrote:

                                   

                                  - Furthermore WD says: "The fact that the problem is solved when you pause the boot seems to imply the issue is within the BIOS of your system."

                                  But the fact other drives work fine with it would seem to pass the ball back in WDs direction. I sniff a bit of buck passing going on there! What did they say about the possibility of exchanging it for a more compatible model? If you already have the latest BIOS on the motherboard and the latest AHCI driver (I've not time to check the versions you've given with Intels website - so I'll need to assume you have confirmed these are in fact the latest for your board) then theres not much else you can do in the short term other than use another drive or perhaps have the drives firmware updated to improve compatibility. Either way thats up to either the drive supplier / manufacturer to sort out.

                                   

                                  Does the manufacturer really expect you to replace the motherboard just so their drive works with it? That's certainly not the way it should go - the 'lesser' component should be made to work with the greater part otherwise a replacement which does work should be used. I don't think you'll have problems finding 2 TB drives that do work with the board - the Samsung I have works fine here and my board is a similar age to yours (although mine is now discontinued). [Edit: I just remembered, you're using Win XP and I have Win 7 - not sure if that should make a difference as far as the BIOS detection issue though.]

                                   

                                  You could liase with Intel tech support over the matter but I wouldn't think it likely that they'd make another BIOS to give longer wait times or change options just for this particular drive IF the vast majority work fine with it - it's worth giving that a try though!

                                  • 14. Re: MoBo dp43tf, 2TB WD-HD not detected in cold start
                                    Purgatorio

                                    I fully agree that it feesible to improve the HDD firmware to a working state and I am totally aware of the problems exchanging a mobo compared to a HDD. It is just my situatation between grinding stones which makes me grieve.

                                     

                                    BTW, I have no chance to change the "Serial ATA AHCI Driver ver 1.10.05", it is part of the BIOS package (NBG4310H.86A.0107.EB.EXE).

                                     

                                    Just two final questions:

                                    - HDD pre-delay with SATA? (restated)

                                    - How to liaise with Intel tech support? (Contact whom?)

                                     

                                    Thank you sincerly for your tips, I will use your argumentation with WD. :]

                                    Purgatorio

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