After a lot of trials my understanding of the new feature "enable / disable hot swap capability" is the following:
1) For internal ports (0,1,2,3)
- If there is something plugged in a port at startup, then it appears as a channel # (Microsoft driver) or a port # (Intel driver) with the device connected.
If hot swap is enabled for this port then we get the device in "remove safely" list. (observed for port 0, this is not true for port 3).
- If nothing is connected to a port at startup, then it does'nt appear in the port / channel list and inserting a device has no effect, even if hot swap is enabled. It is not even possible to try to "search for new hardware", the port does not exist, (hidden, with not connected status, observed for port 3).
2) For e-sata ports (4,5)
If hot swap is enabled, the port appears in channel / port list (with an empty content ), and inserting a device works as supposed to do.
If hotswap is disabled they just work as internal ports (no port in the port list, inserting a device has no effect ).
In summary with this new "feature"
- We loose the possibility to hot swap internal devices (a problem for hot swap racks), which was possible with bios 110.
- We get the capability to lock the use of e-sata ports. Should we consider this as an improvement for security, or a side effect ?
There are also some strange possibilities like to have an internal device in "remove safely" list provided it was present at startup. (did'nt check if we can really unplug it and then hot plug it !).
It is difficult to consider that this behaviour what was targeted by the design team.
Operating system: windows 7 x64 SP1 all updates. Intel drivers all latest, no expansion cards, 8GB RAM.
Maybe nobody had the opportunity to observe the behaviours I described above, so may I ask the question differently:
Does anybody know where I can find the description of the behaviour of the 6 sata ports of a H67 chipset, for what concern the new function introduced in bios 119 to enable or disable individualy hot swap on the six sata ports.
Yes, the name of the function should be self-descriptive, but it appears that it is not, so I am searching for some specification (and the bios release notes give no informations).
Perhaps when there are 10x as many visitors to the forums we will see more discussion. Though not using this board or raid I have interest in changes made in the last few months for hard drive detection. My only suggestion is that it could be related to the power and interface cables being separately detected. The rack you mention would presumably change the connections simultaneously.
Thanks to come and maybe give some ideas, I felt a little bit alone.
The issue I am discussing is new and related to bios change from 110 to 119 where Intel introduced the hot swap enable feature, choice not available at all before.
This is the full history, if you have time to read:
At the begining, up to bios 110, I was using only two internal disks (0,1) and the backplate e-sata port (5), and port 2 for the optical drive.
Then, when with bios 110, I added an Antec e-sata rack. This is only a purely passive internal dock with a single two sided connector, one side for internal cables, one side for a bare drive to be plugged in, and it is perfectly running with the internal e-sata port 4.
At this time I was using Intel RST driver (AHCI only) .
I tried removing Intel RST and using Windows 7x64 AHCI driver, and was surprised to discover my internal disks appearing in the "safely remove" list in the task bar.
This gave me the idea to connect port 3 to the Antec e-sata rack, and saw it was possible to insert a disk, automaticaly discovered, added to the safely remove list, in summary hotswap was possible on port 3 (internal, not specified e-sata).
However it was not very pleasant to see my two internal HDD in the safely remove list. with this driver.
Then, just few days after, a new bios 119 came, with a wonderfull feature to enable or not hotswap, port by port, just like if they read in my mind that I would like to remove the two internal HDD of the "remove safely list", and it was the case !
Unfortunatly I was quickly disappointed to discover that It was no more possible to use port 3 as hot swap port, even hotswap enabled.
It looks like, internal ports, at least port 3 are set as port disabled (a feature of H67) by the bios when there is no device connected at startup.
For e-sata port 4,5 this is only if they are set as hotswap disable (probably intended to lock access to e-sata ports)
For internal ports (2,3) hotswap disabled or enabled, if no disk present at startup the ports are disabled, and there is no way to insert a disk and even make it discovered neither automaticaly nor manualy (search new hardware).
Because the port is disabled at bios level there is no way for Windows to discover a disk connected to it.
This is the issue for me compared to bios 110 behaviour.
For port 0,1 (6GB/s) I did not investigate a lot, however now, the fact that they appear or not in "safely remove" is following the hotswap enabling in bios.
I have to check leaving one of these two ports empty if they are hotswap capable, probably not.
Now, the question for me is to understand if this behaviour is the one that Intel bios team decided to enforce, or if there are some fixes to come to be more flexible like it was the case with bios 110.
I have also to check in sata specification, if hot swap (not speaking of e-sata) with internal disks is a mandatory feature or an option,
Of course I can go back to bios 110 ( recovery process mandatory... but I know it, I applied several times with my DG45iD) but I dont like to go backward with bios.
Instead, I use internal e-sata port (4) for the rack and it's OK, but I loose e-sata port on front panel.
I had expected to having a similar system by now but returned to IDE. I now recall the connection issue dealt with some pins needing to be longer for proper Hot Swap detection. I have seen some reports of e-SATA connectivity being limited to certain ports and I suspect your current setup is likely the best, albeit without front panel connectivity. That could be updated by BIOS at some time. Without having a reference, I use ports 0 and 1 for the boot drive and optical drive.
The detection issue may involve the OS as well. Although the Initialization screen I encountered for my last two drive additions as backups has been reported at least 5 years ago, I had not previously seen it. Others have also indicated that new drives seem to expected to be added for migration of the OS. While the movement of my system partition to one added drive may have involved BIOS mismatch and/or power w/o interface connection both drives encountered problems (different systems). Mention has been made of downgrade of drives to cheaper components w/o changing the names of the drives. I'd like to know if the OS, system or drives are the problem. The issue of degradation of drive detection with the 6-series boards came out at the same time as my problems.
I hope you resolve this issue since I routinely disable drives. The only response from Microsoft indicated this was a bad idea. I assume there can be a problem matching the disabled state if the drive is removed but the response only mentioned data security. You probably don't have the issue of moving a drive to another system, in which case a number (GUID?) is added to the root of the boot drive. Wikipedia has an article on hot swap/hot plugging that points out some distinctions.
I am using the same model of Antec Easy-sata rack on another system with DG45iD (bios 135) and the behaviour is different.
With DG45iD ICH10R internal sata ports, inserting a disk is not detected, but I can make it discovered by windows 7 using search for new hardware, because the port is not disabled by bios (maybe the feature does not exist with ich10).
Then the disk is available, but not appearing in "remove safely" I have to use a well known freeware named hotswap! to get a similar functionality to remove safely.
This is better than nothing because there is no internal e-sata port on DG45iD. (external e-sata is ok).
I use the same bare disk with both systems for backup (both windows 7x64), not using Microsoft backup embedded in windows 7, instead I use Acronis True Image, syncback freeware, or just copy with explorer, and I have no issue to share the disk and the data.
DH67GD is better than DG45iD and H67 chipset seems to have better capability for hot swap, provided Intel does not lock the feature from one bios to the next one, or explain why, if it is required for some reason.
No problem with cables, just with bios.
I almost bought the Antec rack when I got my 1TB drive. This makes more sense now with your explanation.
The safely remove feature should become available with a Win 7 update or Win 8 with appropriate busses. Vista was unpredictable in sometimes requiring the drive component (named) rather than the mass storage device be selected for safe removal. In order for that to work it should be listed in the BIOS as a removable device. That confused me if a standard SATA port is being used so the internal e-SATA port must be required. Users must have been using the hotswap! freeware you mention. I would prefer not to have to connect the e-SATA cable connection to the motherboard for safe removal capability since that would limit me to 3 hard drives on one DG45ID.
The comparison of backup software I read made me conclude Acronis was best except for always running. I only create images through Windows and it works fine. Not sure who provides it to MS.
I got the (crazy) solution.
First I set all ports to hot swap enabled, and use Microsoft windows 7 x64 AHCI sata drivers.
Checking port 1 behaviour I saw that hot swap with port 1 was fonctional. (ok with my Antec rack, and even live plugging an internal drive cable).
Then I removed the optical drive from port 2, and I saw that port 2 was still appearing in ATA channel list while port 3 does not, when nothing is plugged in.
So I changed the optical disk from port 2 to port 3 and got port 2 for the Antec rack.
And then everything is ok, optical drive is still running, because present at startup, Antec rack is hotswap with port 2, e-sata port 4 is available for Antec rack front panel, and I 6GB/s ports are hot swap if needed with the Antec rack.
Drives detected at hot plug appear in "remove safely".
For my internal drives I set hot swap disable to avoid them from the remove list.
In summary, with Windows 7x64 provided sata drivers all seems ok.
I have to check with Intel RST to verify if the behaviour is now the same.
Maybe if you are thinking to go toward such a board with windows 7 and the hotswap capability you can do it now.
What to conclude ?
Either this problem if a rev. B2 marginal problem, with all B2 or my own board only, or it is a stealth issue in bios 119 specific for port 3.
Is there somebody with DH67GD (or DH67BL, DH67CL) with bios 119, using windows 7 drivers only, who can check if port 3 is present in device manager list where the six ATA channel are listed, when there is nothing plugged in.
I am also waiting for a new DH67GD-B3 and tell you what I observe when installed.
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Good Morning yf38 - I have a DH67CL board with v.019 BIOS and can confirm that Port 3 is not present in the Device Managers List when SATA Ports 0,1,2,4, and 5 are in use and 3 is vacant. I have all WIN 7 drivers.
By the way - I installed a SATA HDD this morning and a drive temperature line appeared on my IDU. Still have the Other/Unknown line with the now silent alarm. Regards. Peter
Good morning Peter, for me it's ... 4PM (France).
Thanks for your answer to my strange question.
If port 3 is also not present with your system in the ATA channel list of Windows 7 device manager (using windows 7 driver) when nothing is plugged in, instead of being present and saying that this device is working well, it means that you see the same strange thing as me with my DH67GD.
Probably now, if you do similar trials as I did, if you have any interest in hot swap, you should observe the same behaviour.
You can also simply observe that, if you disconnect a device from one port other than 3 this port stays present in device manager, on the contrary of port 3, and if you plug a device in port 3 before startup, port 3 will reappear (and work).
For me this strange problem seems strongly related to a mistake in bios 119. (in bold to catch Intel people attention, if any there).
For what concern your unknown IDU temp, there are good "chances" that it is related to the SSD.
The ultimate simplest test, before upgrading to bios 122
Let port 2 and port 3 empty, look and see at device manager that sata 2 port appears in ATA channel list, and not port 3.
To do this I removed the optical drive, and only port 0,1 where populated with disks.
Upgrade to bios 122 done, same result, bios 122 release notes dont speek about this issue, nothing was changed.
I looked at the board diagram and see the top port is eSATA (3GB/s) and bottom 2 ports are 6GB/s with 2 3GB/s ports in the middle. When you have the Antec rack with a drive installed it is on the top port and you do not have the e-SATA cable (for front external e-SATA) from the rack connected. Correct? Is the e-SATA drive listed as a removable drive in the BIOS?
What you describe was the first solution when I found that port 3 (one of the two black in the middle) is no hot swap capable.
Then I found that port 2, the other 3GB/s is hot swap capable, I moved my optical drive to port 3 (which is good for devices present at startup), and plugged the Antec rack hot swap connector into port 2.
This made free the true e-sata port 4 which receive now the Antec cable for front panel e-sata.
My final setting is:
0,1 : two HDD's
2: Antec rack, for hot swap pluggable bare disk
3: Optical drive
4: Antec cable for front panel e-sata
5: e-sata backplate connector
All works perfectly, except this is using a workaround to avoid port 3 problem.
All the six ports are in the bios with a choice to enable or not hot swap.
The normal setting should be to disable hotswap for true internal drives and enable it for e-sata ports and the port for internal hot swap rack.
It is also possible to use 6Gb/s ports as hotswap port, I tried this with Antec rack and port 1 and it is OK.