1 2 Previous Next 22 Replies Latest reply on May 16, 2011 9:34 PM by CarWiz

    DH67CL and Intel Desktop Utilities

    mvandell

      Using the latest publically available BIOS and IDU the IDU never seems to show the CPU and case fans RPM changing much (only a few 100 RPM back and forth) from IDLE to 100% CPU usage.  Is this a known issue?  I can't imagine that this would be expected, am i wrong?

       

      Thanks!

        • 1. Re: DH67CL and Intel Desktop Utilities
          CarWiz

          What type of fans are you using--4-wire or 3-wire? What are the temps?

          • 2. Re: DH67CL and Intel Desktop Utilities
            mvandell

            Running Prime95 for about 10 minutes, 100% CPU, cpu temp = 77c, processor fan hovers around 1200 rpm (stock cpu cooler), chassis inlet and outlet fans hover around 550 rpm.  Exit Prime95, cpu temp drops to 40c after 5 minutes or so, processor fan hovers around 1140 rpm, case fans hover around 550 rpm.  Case fans are Scythe S-FLEX SFF21E 120mm, 3 wire, attached to the chassis inlet and outlet headers on the MB.

             

            Also, i see Other/Unknown temperature at 27c showing as over threshold, when i go to the options is shows upper threshold as 0, setting it to 40 get rid of the warning light, but the threshold goes back to 0 after a reboot.

             

            Thanks,

            Mike

            • 3. Re: DH67CL and Intel Desktop Utilities
              CarWiz

              Are you running IDU as Administrator?   If not, that would account for not saving the options. Or since the fan is unknown, where should it save the data? Also, make sure there's only one copy of IDU in task manager. The Scythe fans are fine and dandy but unless you use 4-wire fans on the headers, the speed shown is probably just a default value. The fourth wire is the tach feedback from the fan. It's been past yesterday since I was in the BIOS but I believe you can adjust the fan speed for the processor fan. At 77c, I think I'd want it running a little faster. The other 3-wire fans will run at the "presumed" speed set in the BIOS since the controller will only know how much current they're using--Not the actual fan speed.

               

              My DH67BL has three fan headers. Processor, Chassis In and Chassis Out. I don't know what the "unknown" might be. It doesn't show up on my IDU display. It could be a setting in your BIOS for an un-used fan. My fans hover around 750-800 at idle or low usage. (A couple of IE8 tabs, IDU, a couple of Gadgets and XP-VM in the background.)

              • 4. Re: DH67CL and Intel Desktop Utilities
                parsec

                mvandell,  As long as your chassis fans have three wires, and are plugged directly into the three pin fan headers on the mother board, you should see their speed in IDU or other hardware monitoring tools.  Besides IDU, another free tool you can try is HWiNFO, available here:

                 

                http://www.hwinfo.com/download32.html

                 

                Scroll down from the top of the page and find a table with three types of downloads available.  The self installing EXE file is the easiest to use, I use this program on all my PCs.  I don't recommend using this tool at the same time as IDU or any other monitoring tool, as one of them will likely become confused and display incorrect data.  I'm suggesting you try this tool simply to verify the fan speeds you are seeing in IDU.

                 

                The CPU fan has four wires, and is PWM speed controlled based on the CPU temperature, and it's speed should increase and decrease along with the CPU temperature as it increases and decreases.  This fans speed is also determined by the temperature of the air inside the PC's case, and it increases in steps as the internal case temperature passes specific temperature thresholds.  According the the CPU fan speeds you stated, the fan is not changing it's speed appropriately.

                 

                The three wire chassis fans on any mother board generally do not have as much speed control or change in speed with temperature as the CPU fan does.  They are also not directly linked to the CPU temperature, and don't directly react to it.  They are usually related to mother board temperature.  In order for them to change their speed, settings in the PC's BIOS or software running in Windows can accomplish this.  If you are using an extension cable between the fan and the mother board, or using power from the power supply cables, some of those cables only have two wires and you can't see the fan's speed with them.

                 

                Regarding your fan's speeds, your CPU fan speed seems to low IMO, I don't use the standard Intel CPU cooler, but according to documents I've read, it is rated to operate at speeds typically between 2000 and 3000 RPM, or less.  Why yours is at 1200 RPM at 77C does not make sense, and it should not take five minutes for the CPU to cool off after Prime95 exits, that is to long IMO.

                 

                To check and set up the CPU fan speed, get into the UEFI/BIOS and find the settings for the CPU fan and the chassis fans.  I don't own your board so I cannot give you specific information on that, check the mother board manual for help with that.  Descriptions of the settings can be found in this document:

                 

                http://download.intel.com/support/motherboards/desktop/sb/biosglossarybymenu_v16.pdf

                 

                In your UEFI/BIOS, look for Fan Control and Real-Time Monitoring.  If after changing some of the settings you cannot achieve a higher CPU fan speed, check the CPU fan plug installation, and if that is correct, you may have a defective fan.  What CPU are you using?

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                • 5. Re: DH67CL and Intel Desktop Utilities
                  mvandell

                  Thanks, very helpful reply parsec.  hwinfo shows the exact same fan numbers.  Checking the fan control and cpu temperature sections in the BIOS, it looks like this is expected behavior that cannot be changed.  If i remember right, the fan control will kick in at 80c and the maximum temp is 88c.  I am using an i5-2500k proc.

                   

                  I still have the issue with the  "other Temperature" sensor not having the correct data for the upper sensor threshold, and running as admin makes no difference in saving the data.  From another thread i had, it looks like this is a BIOS issue and should be fixed in the next version released.

                   

                  Thanks,

                  Mike

                  • 6. Re: DH67CL and Intel Desktop Utilities
                    parsec

                    Thanks for your comments, but I still feel your fan speeds and control should start long before an 80C temperature.  That temp is at the very limit of your CPU, even under maximum stress, but that stress level is not a real world situation for the vast majority of users.

                     

                    If you are satisfied with your current configuration, that's fine, but I would urge you to experiment with the fan speed settings in your BIOS, as they are not dangerous or will affect the operation of other aspects of your PC, except if the CPU overheats.  At least for a test, if you can disable CPU fan speed control, which usually causes the fan to run at full speed, you may find your CPU fan is capable of much higher speeds, albeit at a noise level you may dislike.  I'm simply suggesting you may be able to have improved CPU cooling with your current cooler, for free.

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                    • 7. Re: DH67CL and Intel Desktop Utilities
                      CarWiz

                      Ops, my memory error. Yes, the third pin is the tach. The fourth is PWM control. The motherboard has 4-pin headers but I couldn't find any reference on how the board handles the duty cycle for 3-pin fans connected to the header. I suspect it may just turn the fan(s) on and off at the duty cycle rate. I replaced all the 3-pin fans in my case with 4-pin fans and it's quiet.

                       

                      Here's some info extracted from the board and BIOS manuals. Note the "Fan Usage" option below. It can specify "Unknown" like you're seeing in IDU.

                       

                      I found this from the Intel fan reference after I posted: "When using a 3-pin power connector with a 4-pin fan header, the fan will always be on; there is no fan control."

                       

                      1.14.2.2

                      Fan Headers The function/operation of the fan headers is as follows:

                      • The fans are on when the board is in the S0 state

                      • The fans are off when the board is off or in the S3, S4, or S5 state

                      • Each fan header is wired to a fan tachometer input of the hardware monitoring and fan control ASIC

                      • All fan headers support closed-loop fan control that can adjust the fan speed or switch the fan on or off as needed

                      • All fan headers have a +12 V DC connection

                      • 4-pin fan headers are controlled by Pulse Width Modulation

                       

                       

                      Table 31. Fan Header Current Capability Fan Header Maximum Available Current

                      Processor fan 2.0 A

                      Front chassis fan 1.5 A

                      Rear chassis fan 1.5 A

                       

                      BIOS Fan Control

                       

                      All-On Temperature- Numeric -- Defines temperature that the fan control subsystem takes fan(s) to full speed.

                      Control Mode • Minimum • Off • Manual -- Select how the fan connected to this header is to be controlled.

                      Minimum: sets a minimum duty cycle that the fan will never go below.

                      Off: sets the duty cycle to 0.

                      Manual: specifies an exact duty cycle.

                      Control Temperature- Numeric -- Defines temperature that the fan control subsystem attempts to maintain for this device.

                      Current Duty Cycle -- Information only Displays the current fan duty cycle.

                      Current Fan Speed -- Information only Displays the current fan speed.

                      Current Reading -- Information only For temperature sensors: Displays the current temperature. For voltage sensors: Displays the current voltage.

                      Damping -- • Low • Normal • High - Helps to reduce oscillation in fan speed response. Higher settings will produce fewer changes, but could slow temperature response.

                      Fan Type -- Information only Displays the detected fan type.

                      Fan Usage -- • Unknown • CPU • System • MCH • VREG • Chassis • Inlet • Outlet • PSU • PSU In • PSU Out • HDD • Video • Aux • IOH • PCH • Memory Select how the fan connected to this header is to be used.

                      Maximum Duty Cycle- Numeric -- Selects the maximum duty cycle that the fan will never go above during normal usage.

                      Minimum Duty Cycle- Numeric -- Selects the minimum duty cycle that the fan will never go below.

                      Over-Temperature Threshold- Numeric -- Defines the temperature at or above which run-time applications can generate an alert.

                      Over-Voltage Threshold- User Defined -- Defines the voltage at or above which run-time applications can generate an alert.

                      Responsiveness -- • Slow • Normal • Aggressive Defines how quickly fan speed changes based upon changes in temperature.

                       

                      Restore Default Configuration Continue? (Y/N) When this question is selected, the BIOS Fan Control configuration is erased and defaults are loaded. This does not affect any other BIOS Setup questions.

                      Under-Speed Threshold- Numeric -- Sets a threshold to allow an alert to be generated if speed in RPM goes below the set value. A monitoring utility is required to see this alert.

                      Under-Voltage Threshold- User Defined -- Defines the voltage at or below which run-time applications can generate an alert.

                       

                      Message was edited by: CarWiz

                      • 8. Re: DH67CL and Intel Desktop Utilities
                        parsec

                        CarWiz,  Thanks for posting the BIOS/UEFI settings for fan control, nice work.  The only way to know what exists in an Intel board's BIOS is to have it in front of you, the board manuals don't show all options, and the BIOS glossary contains all settings for every board they make market.  Your board may or may not have the identical BIOS as mvandell, but at least is very close.

                         

                        I see things have changed in Intel's fan control settings, compared to my "ancient" DG45ID board (I use other manufactures boards with my i7-930 and i7-2600K CPUs.)  The settings are not very intuitive without some study and experimentation.

                         

                        It seems like mvandell is using a standard priority login, or none, and since Intel plays strictly by the rules, Administrator privileges and/or an Admin. login should be created.  I don't use the same version of IDU that you two do.  Either IDU does not keep settings between boot cycles, or you must have Admin. privileges, you are right CarWiz.  The same may go for the BIOS, the best place to choose settings if you want them to be your standard settings.

                         

                        mvandell, It sounds like you cannot change the fan control settings in your BIOS, because you don't have Administrator priviledges, you seem to be locked-out of changing them.  Some are read-only, but those are identified as seen in the information CarWiz posted, the others should be adjustable.  Check your board's manual for instructions on how to do that.

                         

                        mvandell, I'll list some suggested settings, and CarWiz, please comment on them.  Also CarWiz, do you or have you ever used the standard Intel CPU cooler on your DH67BL, and if so what maximum fan speeds have you seen?  At a CPU temp of 77C, the CPU fan was only at 1200RPM, which seems way to low IMO.

                         

                        All-On Temperature:  I would say 60C or 70C at most, I would set it to 50C.

                         

                        Control Mode:  If this is a CPU fan setting, I would say set to Minimum, and not lower than CarWiz seems to have, 750-800RPM, which I'm guessing is about 25%.  Definitely not Manual or Off.

                         

                        Damping:  Definitely Low or Normal for the CPU fan, CPU temps change very quickly and you want fast response for the best cooling.

                         

                        Maximum Duty Cycle:  For the CPU, 100%, for other fans 100% as well unless their noise bothers you.

                         

                        Minimum Duty Cycle:  For the CPU, 25-30%.


                        Responsiveness:  For the CPU, Aggressive or Normal, Aggressive preferred.

                         

                        Regarding the "Unknown" listing you see in IDU, the DH67CL has two chassis fan headers, and the CPU fan header, which you are currently using.  The Unknown is a temperature sensor reading that IDU does not recognize, which seems odd or is an error.  You should see what version of IDU you have compared to what is available on the DH67CL Support -> Download Software and Drivers page.  For Windows 7, the latest version of IDU is 3.1.4.031a.

                         

                        Three pin fans can also be controlled by a PWM method, and some Intel boards use that method.  It's not quite the same as four pin PWM control but can be almost as responsive.  Three pin fans connected to a four pin fan header will run at the fan's full speed.

                        • 9. Re: DH67CL and Intel Desktop Utilities
                          CarWiz

                          Just took a snippet of IDU before shutting down. Not much running except IE8 and a couple of Gadgets--Network and CPU usage.

                          IDU.JPG

                          • 10. Re: DH67CL and Intel Desktop Utilities
                            parsec

                            Your IDU screen-shot seems to make my point, at a bit above idle your CPU fan is about 1000RPM at a temperature of 38C.  I can't imagine the standard Intel CPU cooler's fan being full speed at 1200RPM at 70C CPU temperature (about twice yours) unless the BIOS settings are keeping it at 1200RPM.

                            • 11. Re: DH67CL and Intel Desktop Utilities
                              mvandell

                              Thanks folks.  Couple of points:

                               

                              1) Running IDU as admin makes no difference, either way it does not save the sensor threshold limits for this sensor (they go back after a reboot).  Having a zero upper limit for the Other/Unknown sensor is i am told a known BIOS issue, so waiting on the next BIOS update to fix this.

                              2) I am able to change the BIOS limits for fan and temperature (i thought i wasn't able to change the temp settings but the UI for that was just not as obvious to me as the rest of the UI when i first tried it), and clearly admin rights while in the BIOS don't matter at all as there are no user accounts.

                              3) I was able to determine that the maximum RPM for the stock CPU cooler for the 2500K is around 2000 (by setting fan control to manual and the lower limit to 100%).

                              4) I changed the chassis fan settings to manual and set a higher RPM value for the lower limit just to get a bit more air through my case (didn't really affect the temps), but since i have quiet fans, no reason not to run them at 50% instead of the default of 30% (if i recall correctly what the default was).

                              5) The real issue i think is the BIOS defaults in the CPU Temperature section.  The defaults are:

                              Over-Temperature Threshold is 88c

                              Control Temperature is 80c

                              ALL-On Temperature is 88c

                              This is why i was seeing the CPU fan RPM never changing (since i was not hitting even 80c), I lowered the last 2 settings to 55c and 65c respectively and i see the CPU fan going to the max RPM of around 2000 when hitting 65c.

                               

                              So, the real question is are those default CPU Temperature settings correct and safe?  I'm sure the answer is here:

                               

                              http://download.intel.com/design/processor/designex/324644.pdf

                               

                              But that is just a bit too much information for me to go through... 

                               

                              Thanks,

                              Mike

                              • 12. Re: DH67CL and Intel Desktop Utilities
                                CarWiz

                                The issue may be in the BIOS but I wouldn't wait for a flash. We have the same board except for the form factor. Mine is the BL (Mini-ATX) and yours is the CL (ATX). Both use the same BIOS file (BL6710H.86A). The current version is 0110 on 4/15/2011. I'm not seeing the problems you are so there's other issues I think you should tend to first. One might be to dump the 3-wire fans in favor of 4-wire. Another is to improve case air flow. Another is to verify the seating of your CPU cooler.

                                 

                                What is your ambient room temperature and case configuration (number of fans and where)? How many displays are you using? Is the PS top mounted or bottom mounted? The inside case temp should never be more than 10c degrees above ambient and your processor case (T-Case) no more than about 35c over that. A target maximum is 80c for longevity and alarm at 88c. While the processor can go above the 95W draw spec and reach 100c, an ideal maximum t-case temp should be 70c or less. I would increase case air flow to achieve that target. After that, then go back and work on software. I think there's a problem with BIOS settings or the IDU install.

                                 

                                In the mean time, you could download HWiNFO32 and run the "sensor only" scan. It has lots of other info but just run with the sensor option and see if it reports an "Unknown" as well. Also, run it with a basically idle PC so you can get a baseline. You can get the free version here: http://www.hwinfo.com/download32.html

                                 

                                By the way, I'm running with the stock CPU cooler but I used Arctic Silver 5 in place of the "pad". I'm also running four 120mm 4-wire case fans not counting the PSU. It's bottom mounted with it's own thermal profile. And, I added a 60mm funnel-ducted fan over the PCH.

                                 

                                Here's sample output of HWiNFO32 sensor scan.

                                 

                                HWiNFO32.JPG

                                • 13. Re: DH67CL and Intel Desktop Utilities
                                  mvandell

                                  I don't think i have any issues with the case cooling, here is what hwinfo shows for me after i lowered the BIOS CPU temperature settings, this is with Media Center running doing a TV recording in the background.  And actually these would be the same even without the BIOS changes as they only come into playwhen i stress the CPU, which it is not now as i am runing less than 10% CPU:

                                  Capture.JPG

                                  • 14. Re: DH67CL and Intel Desktop Utilities
                                    CarWiz

                                    Looks pretty good to me although the PCH is a little high but it can take a little more than the cpu. I was running at 67c (at about 12% cpu)  on the PCH before adding a fan. It dropped to 43-45c after that.

                                    And, I don't see that "Unknown" fan.

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