1 2 Previous Next 22 Replies Latest reply on Apr 30, 2011 8:15 PM by parsec

    i5 Problems

    twentyonehundred

      Hi all,

       

      I'm currently using an i5 650 which is about 5ish months old. It's running at  a constant 101 - 105 degrees C. This has only crept up over the last few weeks as it used to run "below" optimum temperature (all info according to Speedfan and confirmed by RealTempGT). I read that the processor is designed to work up to 105 degrees but it cannot be argued that 105 is not too hot for an idle processor (all cores).

       

      However Speedfan does identify one temperature for something else as -128 degrees C so... :S

       

      I'm having some trouble updating whatever drivers I need for this as I'm hugely incompetant when dealing with drivers etc.

       

      I only became aware of the situation after I started getting very low FPS in many games. It's not due to excess programs, poor graphics cards or any common things like these. So my first port of call was naturally to update as many drivers as I can and check temperatures.

       

      Temps:

       

      • GPU: 45C
      • Temp1: 36C
      • Temp2: 25C
      • Temp3: 72C
      • Temp: -128C (:S)
      • HD1: 32C
      • Core 0: 82C (After extended period with large 15" external fan pointed into case)
      • Core 1: 81C ("")
      • Core 2: 81C ("")

       

       

           System Specicifcs:

       

      • Intel Core i5 CPU @ 3.20GHz
      • 6.00 GB RAM
      • 64 - Bit Windows 7 OS
      • Nvidia GeForce GTX 260
      • OS is on a 32GB Patriot SSD
      • 1TB Hitachi HD

       

      Whole system was custom built and is around 5 - 6 months old. I have no overclocking currently and haven't added any so far. Cooling wise I have the power source fan, the heatsync fan, the GPU fan and two extra medium sized fans. I cannot control the fans through Speedfan as I have a Gigabyte GA-P55-USB3 MB (I believe that is the reason), and I also cannot edit anything to do with the fans or speeds in the BIOS. I upgraded to the latest Nvidia drivers and a recent F8 BIOS update yesterday and have experienced no improvements. In fact I believe my startup time has become slower, especially at the final blue screen stage before loading the actual desktop, which is longer and now also includes a black screen for a second or two.

       

      I realise there's a lot of information here, some of which may be relevant and some of which may not be, but I'm pretty stumped and looking for some help and discussion from some people who I'm sure have solved such problems before.

       

      Many thanks for any ideas anyone can offer,

       

      Chris

        • 1. Re: i5 Problems
          Doc_SilverCreek

          Your pretty hot alright. (Good thing we have thermal throttling!)

           

          My first suspect would be the heatsink.

               either it is not fully tighten down (screws may be stripped?)

               Too much heatsink compound (very light layer which should show good contact across the CPU and on the heat sink when removed)

               No heatsink compound.

               Heat sink is lined up with the chassis air flow. (Heat sink mounting is square now so it is possible to get some heatsinks on sideways. Round heatsinks don't have this problem)

           

          -128 C Liquid nitrogen cooling? or just a sensor that is not hooked up . (binary 1111111 open circuit)

           

          Temp3: 72C. This looks like a system tempature which is pretty hot also. System temps over 50C or Chip temps over 85C make me nervious.

           

          You may want to check in the BIOS set up under PC Health Status to see if the board is reporting the same as the tool you are using.

           

          The download manual on page 55ish list several options for fan speed control. Check to see if you have 3 wire or 4 wire fans and the correct setting in BIOS.

          http://download.gigabyte.eu/FileList/Manual/mb_manual_ga-p55-usb3_v2.0_e.pdf

           

          As a test , try setting CPU Smart FAN Control to disable. This will force the fan to 100% (which is grat cooling , but usually a bit noisy.

          At100% fan see if you temps drop down to a more normal range. If they are still high, it points more to the heatsink rathar than the fan speed.

          1 of 1 people found this helpful
          • 2. Re: i5 Problems
            mechbob

            Try a program called ( coretemp) It's a free program and very accurate. just google it . if it confirms that that one core is still that hot I would try to get the CPU warrantied. Replaced?? You should never have more than 20C difference from any other core. even under full load.

            • 3. Re: i5 Problems
              twentyonehundred

              Thanks for the help so far guys. I first tried disabling the option in the BIOS. When it was idle it did go down to about 70 degrees. But upon restart and just using Chrome it's currently at 90 degrees. The temp is confirmed by all three programs now, including the third one suggested in the second reply. Also confirmed in BIOS.

               

              http://imgur.com/WdGWF.jpg

               

              As I type the temperature has dropped to 88,88,87. I guess I should start checking out the heatsync. The computer has no formal warranty, but under the sale of goods act I believe a product that lasts this long would be deemed faulty and not of merchantable quality and therefore returnable.

               

              The temperature has now dropped to 78,77,77 whilst being idle. Does anyone don't know why there are three cores listed? It's a two core hyperthreaded to four system so I don't really get it.

               

              The hot Temp3 has dropped to 67 degrees. All these are idle temperatures though so will probably be back up to ~100 in game, which I will test again soon.

               

              Concerning the heatsync, as I said I assembled the computer myself, my first time doing so but I am fairly competent. I believe the thermal gel layer came pre-applied as I spent some time trying to figure it out. I will check that everything is aligned correctly etc I guess as the next step.

               

              Thanks again for the help so far.

              • 4. Re: i5 Problems
                mechbob

                Before you go off the deep end lets try this remove the CPU cooler and clean the CPU and the cooler with some alchol and tissue than re-apply some good paste ( Antec 5 ) or something like it , Thin coat evenly applied . re-install and see what happens MOST people think more is better when it comes to CPU paste Not true. even is better.

                • 5. Re: i5 Problems
                  Doc_SilverCreek

                  Very interesting!

                   

                  With CPU SMART FAN control disabled your CPU fan should be running at max speed.

                  With a CPU temp of 94 deg, I would also expect the CPU fan to be running at max speed.

                   

                  Your CPU fan is idling along at 2089 RPM which is pretty slow for most fans.

                   

                  Do you have a 3 wire or 4 wire fan?

                  Do you have more than just the CPU fan installed in the system?

                   

                  Do you know the type / make / manafacture of your heat sink & fan?

                  Assuming this is the stock Intel heatsink for an i5 min fan speed is 2100 RPM and max is 3000 RPM

                  • 6. Re: i5 Problems
                    Doc_SilverCreek

                    Do the system fans plug into the mother board or directly to the power supply?

                     

                    The BIOS screen shot is only reporting the single CPU fan and I would expect to see the 2 system fans as well.

                     

                    You may want to confirm all the fans are connected to the correct headers.

                     

                    ause.bmp

                    • 7. Re: i5 Problems
                      parsec

                      I think it is clear there is an issue with the CPU cooler, likely not mounted correctly.  We still don't know if it is a stock Intel unit, correct?

                       

                      That CPU temp at less than one volt is terrible, something is very wrong.

                       

                      Gif's suggestion to remount the CPU cooler and reapply thermal compound is Square One for you sir!  (Highest priority, your starting point.)

                       

                      Doc's suggestion to check the fan power connections, particularly the CPU fan, is also Square One!

                       

                      I am surprised that (if) Gigabyte does not supply fan speed control software for this motherboard, but I haven't checked that...

                       

                      Sorry to say, you need to get into that case, and perhaps go so far as remove the motherboard when you reinstall the CPU cooler, to verify correct mounting, and make that process easier.  Unless you find some other obvious problem.  Good luck!

                      • 8. Re: i5 Problems
                        twentyonehundred

                        First of all thank everyone for the insightful and very useful comments and information.

                         

                        An update on my status:

                         

                        I am currently writing from my laptop as the computer is now inoperable.

                         

                         

                        I took the heatsync/fan off and discovered that the gel was in a solid, chalky state. Presuming this was not correct I carefully removed it and cleaned both connections. Obviously this renders any use of the processor useless. I have some spare thermal gel around which came with the unit but am unfortunately unable to locate it at the moment. What remained of what was on there covered about 75% of the surface area, in a circular shape in the middle. I trust this is insufficient (I know more != better but surface area is important?)? This was the pre-applied factory standard, which I have read on other forums that others have found the factory applied gel to be insufficient.

                         

                        So at the moment all I can do is wait until tomorrow morning when I can go and get some more thermal gel and re-apply. Whilst I'm on the topic does anyone know some more information about the gel's use. Specifically what state the gel should be in so that it can be most affective, e.g. was my solid chalky solid paste on my processor actually okay or an example of redundant paste?

                         

                        As for Gigabytes fan control, I did track down a program called... EasyTouch or Easy something that was supposed to be a Gigabyte endorsed / produced program for controlling fan speed. Although the only control I saw was a method of setting the fan speed when the temperature rose to a certain point. No independent control for each fan or anything.

                         

                        As for the set up of my fans, this is where I really come of looking like a massive noob. Okay, this computer was my first self built system, even though I (kind of) consider myself fairly competent technologically speaking. I have the main heatsync fan which is connected to the CPU_FAN as in the diagram. I have two other medium sized fans that came with the NZXT case, one mounted on the rear and one on the removable side of the case. Both are connected in sequence by the large four pin power supply only and not by the smaller 3 pinned MB connections, which logically means they cannot be controlled? These fans do not have the appropriate other connections so presumably I am stuck in this situation? But presumably this means that each fan is defaulted to 100% surely?

                         

                        There are also standard fans in the power supply and on the graphics card. Overall as can be seen in the screenshot above, the general system temperature is quite good (except whatever that Temp1 is, maybe the other core, or GPU?). Interesting points about how the standard i5 650 heatsync fan can max out at 3000RPM. I can confirm it is the standard, as everything is that I have mentioned so far. So this suggests that alongside sorting the thermal paste connection out, that maybe the heatsync fan needs replacing? As far as I can see, using the information you have all provided that screenshot proves that it is not functioning properly and should be good enough for Intel to replace? As if the smart control is disabled, it must default to 100%, which just under 2100RPM is far from.

                         

                        Concerning the mounting of the CPU / heatsync, again I am unsure as to the specifics of this. When putting it together I attempted to follow the somewhat limited instructions and apply some common sense. One thing I am noticing is that the four.. pin things that attach to the motherboard that pop in and are secured by turning 90 degrees at the top seem to be somewhat unreliable. First off I am unsure as to whether the pins are actually popping through the motherboard far enough, and whether it makes a huge difference how precisely this is secured? Secondly turning the tops 90degrees to secure them seems to only do so half the time. Sometimes turning them back 90 degrees to their start positions means I can't pull that leg out of the motherboard hole. Very strange.

                         

                        Thanks for your continued help, apologies for the wall of text!

                        • 9. Re: i5 Problems
                          Doc_SilverCreek

                          Chalky does not sound good,but makes it very likly to be your problem

                          Most of the time it is white or gray. Sticky,gooey and smeared everywhere you don't want it.

                           

                          Some heatsinks have a round contact dot in the center. Most I have used are square and the same size as the processor top.

                           

                          Chassis fans to the power supply are ok, but most run full speed and can be a bit noise. (but you get good cooling!)

                          • 10. Re: i5 Problems
                            parsec

                            Well, I think we found the installation problem, from 2100's last post:

                             

                            One thing I am noticing is that the four.. pin things that attach to  the motherboard that pop in and are secured by turning 90 degrees at the  top seem to be somewhat unreliable. First off I am unsure as to whether  the pins are actually popping through the motherboard far enough, and  whether it makes a huge difference how precisely this is secured?  Secondly turning the tops 90degrees to secure them seems to only do so  half the time. Sometimes turning them back 90 degrees to their start  positions means I can't

                             

                             

                            I am sorry my friend, but turning them does NOT lock them into place, turning them is ONLY used for REMOVAL!  With the pin turned to their start position, you push them down until you hear them click.  DO NOT TURN after that!!!  That should be done two at a time with pins on a diagonal from each other.  Given what you wrote, it is quite possible that your CPU cooler barely contacted the CPU!  The heat may have dried out the compound, given what you described.  I think this is the problem.

                             

                            Doc, do you have a link to better Intel CPU cooler mounting instructions?  I sure hope your CPU is not ruined.

                            • 11. Re: i5 Problems
                              Cpt.Dogfruit
                              1 of 1 people found this helpful
                              • 12. Re: i5 Problems
                                twentyonehundred

                                Ah okay. Well I did have someone who had built many computers look over my system the day I finished completing it. He took a few bits out and made some changes, so I hope he fixed this all the way back then, as for the first few months the temperatures were all reading below optimal, as in quite cool.

                                 

                                But yes when I was playing around with it last night it seems I was doing it wrong.

                                 

                                All still click in properly except one corner which doesn't seem to click properly. It's always had a small problem with one of the two translucent white pins that poke through the MB holes being slightly out of shame so sometimes it does not fit correctly. This is all from this morning when I applied a very thin even layer of Antec thermal grease to the heatsync.

                                 

                                When I turned the computer on the idle temperatures were at ~60 - 65 degrees, but instantly rose to 103+ when I started up a relatively simplistic game, CIV 5 to test. Fan speed is still 2064RPM with the others just hooked up to the power only.

                                 

                                Bit stumped now. Presumably one corner of the heatsync possibly not clicking in 100% correctly could mean problems? I guess it means taking it off and back on, which must mean cleaning and reapplying the paste all over again?

                                Stopping the game instantly drops to 90 and now its down to 70 again.

                                • 13. Re: i5 Problems
                                  Cpt.Dogfruit

                                  "relatively simplistic game, CIV 5" LOLOLOL soryr couldn't help it...playing it myself atm, but with the way they have programmed it i wouldn't call it not even relatively simlistic!!! but i get what you mean.

                                   

                                  And yes you definitely need all four clipped in properly, otherwise it would cause high temps.

                                  Also if after everything you are still getting teh same temps (btw dont apply too much thermal paste if you reseat it, a grain of rice or two i believe is the recommended) i would advise you to check to see if tehre is a bios update for teh board, at least on intel board i have seen this have an effect on temp, or at least the reporting. Also if you can try a different PSU, i have also seen them, cause a CPU to get hot.... and if all else fails you might need to test the CPU in another motherboard and/ or  another CPU in your motherboard.

                                  • 14. Re: i5 Problems
                                    twentyonehundred

                                    xD well I literally just got it, and from playing previous versions I guessed it was a reasonable assumption lol. Apparently not! Ok I'll take it back off, clean it all up again and have another look at these legs. Cheers.

                                    1 2 Previous Next