14 Replies Latest reply on Jul 6, 2017 12:32 PM by Intel Corporation

    NUC7i5BNK - random RAM issues after automatic start by RTC/WOL

    d0n0

      Hi community,

      I'm seeing some strange issues with 5 similar NUCs (all NUC7i5BNK) I'm having running here with the newest firmware 0046.

      The devices are powered on by RTC every morning and set to low power consumption in the BIOS (which doesn't make a difference, same happens on Max Performance, if I may anticipate) but no Deep S4/S5 because then the fans don't spin up (handled/confirmed by Intel in another thread here on the forums) and I'm seeing random RAM issues on all of them. They aren't left on running because the tasks I'm using them for can be finished rather fast, so to save power and not having them running idle for 16 hrs a day, I'm shutting them down when done (by script).

       

      It happens every couple of days that Windows (10) crashes with BSOD, doesn't even boot, applications crash, etc. Typical random crashes and sooner or later BSOD. Running Memtest86 shows the RAM is full of errors on basically every register after even some seconds runtime. Feels a bit as what happens when timings would be set terribly wrong.

      On all 5 of them this happens. RAM is partly 8GB Crucial, partly 16GB Kingston and one 8GB Samsung. When I just restart them, the error remains. What helps however is to power the devices off, then power them back on. Sometimes pulling the power plug completely is necessary too.

      After powering them on again, the RAM is fine and even hours-long extended tests with Memtest86 reveal no issue at all. The device continues to run a while, but after some days - memory error again after woken up by RTC. As it happens even when booting directly into Memtest86, driver issues can be ruled out. I couldn't reproduce it willingly, but when it happens it will stay that way unless I power down the devices, so restarting it and booting into Memtest86 works for that matter.

       

      This happens on all in the same way and all have RAM that is tested OK. It can be instant-resolved by power cycling the devices (which wouldn't be the case for faulty RAM), I'm presuming there is an issue with the BIOS - or maybe some RAM timings are set incorrectly when woken up by RTC/WOL. Couldn't verify that yet.

      Also when having those issues I got trouble with the SSDs becoming faulty, data being lost, etc. So far I could repair the file system with sfc /scannow and or chkdsk /F /R -> however I'm not so sure if this is not just a resultant problem of the RAM issues or if the root cause for those has impact on the SSD as well, so I left that out of my main considerations for now.

       

      I know these random issues are hard to trace down - still wanted to raise the thread to make you guys aware of this issue and/or possibly be pointed to any setting that might eliminate the problem for me. With 5 of the boxes running, chances are sadly rather high that I'm having to deal with his on a daily basis though I actually thought to have them set up once and let them do their thing then without too much maintenance needed.

       

      Thanks

        • 1. Re: NUC7i5BNK - random RAM issues after automatic start by RTC/WOL
          N.Scott.Pearson

          Is all of this memory 2133? If it's faster, spurious DRAM issues like this can occur (the NUCs were only developed for and validated at 2133).

           

          ...S

          • 2. Re: NUC7i5BNK - random RAM issues after automatic start by RTC/WOL
            d0n0

            Thanks for the quick reply Scott!

             

            Yes, all are 2133Mhz RAM. I'm using, namely, 2 Crucial 16GB (CT16G4SFD8213), 2 Crucial 8GB (CT8G4SFD8213), 1 16GB Kingston HyperX (HX421S13IB/16) (have mixed the Samsung one in my inital post in there - sorry for that).

            They have rather fast latency though - Crucials have CL15, Kingston CL13 but still all of the modules show the same behavior and the exact same problem. When the issue happens, Memtest shows the right timings for them.

            However at least the Crucial 16GB ones have been tested successfully with CMTL, so they should basically work. Which they do. Just not... when this issue appears.

             

            I'm doubting that all modules or all NUCs are faulty in the exact same way, that's why I'm presuming something low-level software-ish as cause here  I might be wrong though... but not getting any further myself at the moment, so any help is highly appreciated!

             

            What I have done now is to setup the RAM settings in the BIOS manually (have been set to "automatic" before) on 3 of them and see if that improves anything. I'll get back here on any new findings.

            • 3. Re: NUC7i5BNK - random RAM issues after automatic start by RTC/WOL
              Intel Corporation
              This message was posted on behalf of Intel Corporation

              Thank you very much to  for the information provided above.
               
              : Thank you very much for joining the Intel® NUC communities.
               
              Perfect, please let us know if the problem persists after setting up the RAM settings manually.
               
              Just for testing purposes, did you test the NUCs using just one memory stick of RAM?
               
              Any further questions, please let me know.
               
              Regards,
              Alberto R
               

              • 4. Re: NUC7i5BNK - random RAM issues after automatic start by RTC/WOL
                d0n0

                Hi Alberto,

                 

                I'll update this thread with my findings.

                 

                I only have single RAM modules, none of the NUCs has two modules in it.

                 

                Regards

                • 5. Re: NUC7i5BNK - random RAM issues after automatic start by RTC/WOL
                  Intel Corporation
                  This message was posted on behalf of Intel Corporation

                  Hi : Perfect, once you get the chance please let us know the results.
                   
                  Probably you already tried this, but to test the RAM stick on both memory slots is another step to try.
                   
                  Any questions, please let me know.
                   
                  Regards,
                  Alberto R
                   

                  • 6. Re: NUC7i5BNK - random RAM issues after automatic start by RTC/WOL
                    David0001

                    Hi I have a NUC7i5BNH, its around 1 month old.

                    It has the same memory you have Crucial 16GB (CT16G4SFD8213).

                     

                    I run windows 10, on a samsung 850 EVO SSD 250GB M.2.

                     

                    I've have BIOS version BNKBL357.86A.0046.2017.0503.1744

                     

                    I have had problems for some time with the system not booting correctly.

                    I have had to re-install the system 2 times since. After some time the windows install suffer BSOD and get corrupted after some time of consecutive BSODs.

                     

                    First installation I ran I started with 2 RAMs but then now into the third installation I have settled for 1 RAM, some weeks ago.

                    With one RAM I get less bad boots, but they happen still sometime. There is nothing wrong with the RAMs themselves, I whent back to where I bought them and they had one of them (that I thought ran worse (more BSODs) then the other) tested and that tested out (in their own test) with no issues.

                     

                    So to the question:

                    How do I try and set the RAM manually, I can get into BIOS and get to Advanced> Performance > Memory > General settings. But what shall I set these to?

                    Memory profile: manual

                    at automatic they are set to

                     

                    Memory multiplier: 16

                    tCL:             15

                    tRCD:          15

                    tRASmin:     36

                    tCWL:          14

                    tCCDL:          6

                    tFAW:          23

                    tREFI:          8316

                    tRFC:          374

                    tRRD:          11

                    tRTP:          8

                    tWR:          16

                    Command rate :          1n

                    Round trip latency optimization: "ticked in the box"

                    TCR:           "disabled"

                     

                     

                    The timings says with one RAM slotted into RAM slot 1:

                    Total memory: 16Gb

                    Memory speed: 2133 Mhz

                    Memory clock: 133 Mhz

                    SODIMM 1 (Memory channel A) 16Gb

                    SODIMM 2 (Memory channel B) Not installed

                    Memory voltage 1.2 V

                     

                     

                     

                    /Best Regards David

                    • 7. Re: NUC7i5BNK - random RAM issues after automatic start by RTC/WOL
                      N.Scott.Pearson

                      David,

                       

                      So these sales guys say they tested the DRAM and it was ok. And you actually believed them? Sigh...

                       

                      The DRAM needs to be tested in your NUC, not in their machines. Tests in their machines tell you absolutely nothing (and likely were so short in duration as to be worthless anyway); you need to know whether they are going to be compatible with your machine and you can determine this only in testing in your machine. I suggest that you start by running a series of tests using MemTest86 or MemTest86+. Test one SODIMM at a time. Put it in the upper socket (only use the lower socket when running with two SODIMMs). Boot from a flash disk with the MemTest86 or MemTest86+ image installed onto it. Let it run for 12 hours at a minimum (better if 24 hours)...

                       

                      ...S

                      • 8. Re: NUC7i5BNK - random RAM issues after automatic start by RTC/WOL
                        d0n0

                        So - an update.

                        Setting RAM timings manually didn't change a thing, still the same issues were occuring.

                        Then I've reset the BIOS to defaults on all of them and left it as it was, despite setting the RTC and disabling stuff I don't want like Mic, IR, BT, etc.

                        This morning: same thing on one of 'em.

                         

                        So what I'm doing now is to set the BIOS to "Always On" after powerloss and connect them to a time switch plug so they are powered off and then powered on with the power coming back.

                        Why I'm trying that now? Because I've never seen this happening when manually powering the devices on. It just seem to happen when it's coming on after RTC/WOL. With the fans not spinning up after deep-sleep mode and such I'm trying to rule out that something's broken with the triggered wakeup... hope that that helps.

                         

                        I'll keep you guys posted - and thanks for the suggestions so far.

                        • 9. Re: NUC7i5BNK - random RAM issues after automatic start by RTC/WOL
                          Intel Corporation
                          This message was posted on behalf of Intel Corporation

                          Thank you very much to for the suggestions provided above.

                          : You are welcome. Perfect, thank you very much for sharing those details and once you get the chance please let us know the results.

                          Any questions, please let me know.

                          Regards,
                          Alberto R

                          • 10. Re: NUC7i5BNK - random RAM issues after automatic start by RTC/WOL
                            d0n0

                            Hi there,

                             

                            short update from my end:

                            Since I'm booting all NUCs with a timed power switch (and always on after power loss BIOS setting) instead of RTC or WOL I have not yet seen any memory issues anymore - so I'd carefully call that a working workaround - at least for me and for what I'm using those little boxes for.

                             

                            However ( ) I'm now having another issue I've never seen before. Now at least two NUCs sometimes detect no HDMI output (at all, they go in 1024x768 mode and no HDMI audio while the screen remains black on a connected monitor - I'm using TeamViewer as well which still works, so I know that they are up and running, just not detecting anything on HDMI). I've connected them to the same HDMI switch box, so this switch box can be ruled out - the others detect it just fine and even swapping cables and ports doesn't "move" the issue to another NUC, it's still those two.

                            Shutting the the device down, then powering it up again seems to fix it all the time then. So... they still do what I want them to do without HDMI, so that's no major deal for me... still it's a bit strange.

                             

                            Once the next BIOS is out, I'm going to test RTC/WOL again and update this thread... if until then someone has a suggestion about this HDMI not detected phenomena, I'd be happy to read it

                             

                            Regards

                            • 11. Re: NUC7i5BNK - random RAM issues after automatic start by RTC/WOL
                              Intel Corporation
                              This message was posted on behalf of Intel Corporation

                              : Thank you very much for sharing that information.

                              Perfect, it is great to hear that there is no issue with the memory RAM anymore.

                              In order to try to fix the HDMI problem, we can try to re-install the chipset, management engine and graphics drivers, latest version is 4678:
                              https://downloadcenter.intel.com/download/26801/Intel-Chipset-Device-Software-for-Intel-NUC-Kit-NUC7i3BN-NUC7i5BN-NUC7i7BN?product=95061
                              https://downloadcenter.intel.com/download/26482/Intel-Management-Engine-Consumer-Driver-for-Intel-NUC-Kit-NUC7i3BN-NUC7i5BN-NUC7i7BN?product=95061
                              https://downloadcenter.intel.com/download/26480/NUCs-Intel-HD-Graphics-Driver-for-Windows-10-for-Intel-NUC-Kit-NUC7i3BN-NUC7i5BN-and-NUC7i7BN?product=95061

                               

                              Also, if you have the option to use a different HDMI cable, that is a good thing to try.


                              Any questions, please let me know.

                               

                              Regards.
                              Alberto R

                              • 12. Re: NUC7i5BNK - random RAM issues after automatic start by RTC/WOL
                                Intel Corporation
                                This message was posted on behalf of Intel Corporation

                                : I just wanted to check if the information posted previously was useful for you and if you need further assistance on this matter?
                                 
                                Any questions, please let me know.
                                 
                                Regards,
                                Alberto R
                                 

                                • 13. Re: NUC7i5BNK - random RAM issues after automatic start by RTC/WOL
                                  d0n0

                                  It stopped by itself apparently. Decided to wait for the the next occurence. Didn't happen yet.

                                   

                                  Until any new BIOS version is released I can live with what I've described as a workaround above.

                                   

                                  Thanks.

                                  Regards

                                  • 14. Re: NUC7i5BNK - random RAM issues after automatic start by RTC/WOL
                                    Intel Corporation
                                    This message was posted on behalf of Intel Corporation

                                    : Thank you very much for letting us know that information.
                                     
                                    Excellent, we are glad to hear that the work around keeps the NUC functioning properly.
                                    Please keep checking our web site for future BIOS releases:
                                    https://downloadcenter.intel.com/
                                     
                                    Any questions, please let me know.
                                     
                                    Regards,
                                    Alberto R