1 2 Previous Next 15 Replies Latest reply on Jun 29, 2017 5:41 PM by chadotter

    Dell XPS 13 2-in-1 i7-7Y75 constantly power limit throttled and frequently at .4-.8Ghz

    DAVECPACPU

      I recently purchased a Dell XPS 13 that has Intel i7-7Y75.  From day 1, the computer constantly lags and has performance issues.  And I'm just running basic MS Office programs like Outlook, Word, and Excel.  But I can type faster than it process and there is constant lag, for example, when I simply enter data into cells in Excel.

       

      I can't figure out how I just paid $2k+ for a top of the line laptop, yet I can't even run MS Office programs.  This appears to be the worst CPU I've had in 15 years.  What can I do?

       

      Upon monitoring with tools like HWiNFO64, ThrottleStop, and Intel XTU I see that whenever the CPU gets under a load, the PL1 and/or PL2 throttles kick in and slows it way down to 400-800 Mhz.

       

      Upon investigation, it appears that by design this CPU has a TDP of only 4.5W, with cTDP up to 7W and down to 3.5W. 

       

      TDP Level Limits shown in ThrottleStop, all geyed out, are:

       

      Level               TDP     Min     Max     Ratio

      TDP Level 1     3          0          0          6

      TDP Level 2     7          0          0          16

       

       

      It also has turbo boost up to 36X which should give me 3.6GHz.  However, whenever turbo kicks in, it immediately hits the TDP level limits and throttles down.  Essentially, the turbo boost is effectively useless.  Worse yet, it doesn't  just throttle down to its rated CPU rate of 1.3Ghz, but instead frequently throttles down to .4 to .8 Ghz rendering my laptop effectively useless and much slower than any laptop I've had for 15 years.  I have never had an issue in the past with a computer lagging just during typing.

       

      I'm no expert, but it appears that the needed voltage to run in turbo boost causes the processor to exceed the TDP Level Limts thus it throttles itself way down.  This is like buying a Corvette with a Turbo that also has a governor that limits my speed to 40mph.

       

      When running loads I see that as my Package Power gets over 5-6W (approaching 7W) that is then the PL1 and/or PL2 throttles kick in.

       

      Am I undertanding this right?  Something I'm missing?  Anything I can do?  Would undervolting it allow it to run in turbo boost mode w/o getting throttled so much?

       

       

      Thank you!

       

      Message was edited by: David Jones Added additional info about TDP Level Limits

        • 1. Re: Dell XPS 13 2-in-1 i7-7Y75 constantly power limit throttled and frequently at .4-.8Ghz
          Intel Corporation
          This message was posted on behalf of Intel Corporation

          Hello DAVECPACPU,

           

          My apologies for the inconvenience.

           

          During this behavior did you contact Dell?

           

          From my end I can help to diagnose the health of your processors and we can do that by running the Download Intel® Processor Diagnostic Tool, I also recommend updating the following drivers;  

          • BIOS
          • Intel Chipset Device Software Driver 
          • Intel(R) Management Engine Components Installer 

          Access Support for XPS 13 9365 2-in-1 | Drivers & downloads | Dell US to get these files, filter by your operating system.

           

          If you still have concerns regarding the performance of your laptop the best advice and support should be provided by your computer manufacturer.

           

          Please share the results of the Intel® Processor Diagnostic Tool.

           

          To attach a file, you must click "Use Advanced Editor" in the top right corner of the response box, then the "attach" option will appear in the bottom right corner of the response box.

           

          Regards,

          Amy C.

          • 2. Re: Dell XPS 13 2-in-1 i7-7Y75 constantly power limit throttled and frequently at .4-.8Ghz
            DAVECPACPU

            Hi Amy,

             

            Yes, I contacted Dell and have spent countless hours with them, to no avail.  I have updated BIOS and chipset drivers.  I have run their diagnostic tools.  I have also called Intel support and they had me run the Intel diag tool (see email reply) which all came back as PASS.  (Case #: 02799335).

             

            I seem to be stuck in the middle of Dell and Intel both saying everything is just fine, but nobody giving me any more information about my chip.  Can you please let me know:

             

            1. Is this an anomaly or is this a function of these Y chips?  Are they so focused on low power/heat that they simply can't perform?  Have you had other issues with this chip?  Should I only be expecting to be able to browse the internet and not be able to run applications like Excel?
            2. My BIOS only has simple OC settings for turning TurboBoost On/Off and for turning SpeedStep On/Off.  Nothing else, and no settings for Speed Shift.  Is this limitation of the chip, or is this Dell imposing limitations on the chip through their BIOS?
            3. Are there any other settings available on this chip for increasing performance and/or reducing the PL throttling?  Can I increase the thresholds whereby PL throttling kicks in?  Can I reduce the serverity or duration of the throttling once it kicks in?  Again, is this allowable from the chip perspective and/or limited to me by the Dell BIOS?
            4. Do you have any one internally at Intel that has run some OC tests and benchmarks on this chip that can lead me in a useful direction?  Through ThrottleStop I have found I can at least turn on SpeedShift in there and I seem to get decent results setting the min/max to 16/20.  Any advice or help from your experts there at Intel?
            5. Do the settings I showed you in my original post, regarding TDP Levels 1 and 2  set for 3 and 7 with ratios of 6 and 16 explain the behavoir I'm getting?  Can they be changed?

             

            Thank you,

            David

            • 3. Re: Dell XPS 13 2-in-1 i7-7Y75 constantly power limit throttled and frequently at .4-.8Ghz
              DAVECPACPU

              Amy,  Here's a bit more info that might help.

               

              My computer is running with all default settings including:

              • Hyperthreading - ON
              • SpeedStep - ON
              • Turbo Boost - ON
              • Multi-Core Support - ON
              • C-State Support - OFF

               

              I am not running any OC settings.  I am running ThrottleStop only for monitoring.  I also ran HWiNFO64 for monitoring as well.Upon a clean re-boot, here is what various monitoring tools show:

               

              1. HWiNFO64 shows all three throttling conditions of:

              • Core #0 Power Limit Exceeded
              • Core #1 Power Limt Exceeded
              • Package/Ring Power Limit Exceeded
              • (see attached screenshot of above)

               

              2. Windows Resource Montitor:

              • 60% CPU Usage
              • 70% Maximum Frequency
              • (see attached screenshot of above)

               

              3. ThrottleStop:

              •   TDP Throttled.  PL1, and PL2 (off/on)
              • Multiplier = 11.85
              • (see attached screenshot of above)

               

              Note, the resource monitor display of the Maximum Frequency being almost identical to the CPU Usage is a condition that happens frequenty and periodically with my computer. I will refer to this state as "hugging".  It is during this "hugging" state that everything seems to lag on my computer.  Sometimes they are both "hugging" around 80%, sometimes around 60%, and sometimes both are even as low as 24%.  Regardless of what % they are at, if they are in a "hugging" state my computer lags.  (see attached screenshot example).

               

              At other times, when everything is running just fine without any lagging, there is a clear separation between the CPU Usage% and the Maximum Frequency %.  I will refer to this state as "normal".  During this normal state, my computer is quick and runs just fine without any lagging.  (see attached screenshot example).

               

              So, fundamentally, I think there is a problem with how the SpeedStep and/or TurboBoost technology are working.  It seems that when my CPU Usage is very low, there is no throttling and the Maximum Frequency is quite high.  However, when my CPU Usage starts to get high (say 30%+), my chip starts to throttle and my Maximum Frequency drops, my Multiplier drops, the "hugging" state begins, and I experience significant lagging.

               

              Is this the way Intel has designed the chip and the technology?  I'm trying to get some direction from either Intel and/or Dell regarding what is going on versus what is "supposed" to be going on with my chip when it is under 30%+ CPU Usage.  Because to me, it seems completely opposite of what should be happening.

               

              In my mind:

              • SHOULD BE
                • When CPU Usage % INCREASES, then Multiplier/Maximum Frequency should INCREASE to accommodate the increased processing needs
              • WHAT IS HAPPENING
                • When CPU Usage % INCREASES, then Multiplier/Maximum Frequency IS DECREASING due to throttling and/or TurboBoost and/or SpeedStep not working properly, and computer lags

               

              I am also sharing this message thread with DELL Support so they are in the same loop.

               

              Thank you,

              David

              • 4. Re: Dell XPS 13 2-in-1 i7-7Y75 constantly power limit throttled and frequently at .4-.8Ghz
                Intel Corporation
                This message was posted on behalf of Intel Corporation

                Thanks David.

                 

                I will respond to your questions on the same order and based on the information available from my end, see below;

                1. This is actually an isolated case, we have not seen this processor affected by behaviors like the one you mentioned. You should be able to run Excel, these applications do not have demanding requirements and a 7th Generation processor should run.
                2. Yes this could be limitation from your computer manufacturer. The Intel® Speed Shift Technology is present on your processor model, but it will depend on Dell BIOS if it can be accessible for you.
                3. This can be accomplish on unlocked processors, you won't have any settings for this since the chip does not support it and neither the Dell BIOS.
                4. Not really, Intel does not support overclocking, for this you may want to visit third-party sites for overclocking.
                5. No, TDP can't be changed since it represents the average power, in watts, the processor dissipates when operating at Base Frequency with all cores active under an Intel-defined, high-complexity workload.

                 

                At this stage I would recommend to push for a replacement on the Dell side, since you passed our diagnose on the other case and on this thread this could be only indicating that the issue should be addressed by the computer manufacturer.

                 

                Regards,

                Amy C.

                • 5. Re: Dell XPS 13 2-in-1 i7-7Y75 constantly power limit throttled and frequently at .4-.8Ghz
                  DAVECPACPU

                  Thanks for the reply.   I have a call scheduled with Dell, and to make sure I speak about the chip technology correctly with them, can you clarify:

                   

                  Regarding #4 I meant to clarify that I was asking specifically about the Intel Speed Shift Technology on my chip, not about other OC methods.  Given that the Speed Shift is Intel's own tech and is on the chip, I would imagine there is something, anything, regarding usage and performance of my chip when Speed Shift is enabled?  Perhaps I can get Dell to unlock the feature since it is part of the chip.  As part of the tech on the chip itself, does Intel have any tests, benchmarks, settings, documentation, etc. that they can share with me?  And, very simply, regarding the Speed Shift and Speed Step technologies, are they meant to be used in conjunction with each other or is it a one-or-the-other situation?

                   

                  Thanks again,

                  David

                  • 6. Re: Dell XPS 13 2-in-1 i7-7Y75 constantly power limit throttled and frequently at .4-.8Ghz
                    Intel Corporation
                    This message was posted on behalf of Intel Corporation

                    If the technology is present on the processor is should be able to run with the other features on the processor, but the computer manufacturer could limit this. All the information available from our end for this processor can be found on the links below;

                     

                    Datasheet, Vol. 1: 7th Gen Intel® Core™ Processor U/Y-Platforms:

                    http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/processors/core/7th-gen-core-family-mobile-u-y-processor-lines-datasheet-vol-1.html

                     

                    Datasheet, Vol. 2: 7th Gen Intel® Core™ Processor U/Y-Platforms:

                    http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/processors/core/7th-gen-core-family-mobile-u-y-processor-lines-datasheet-vol-2.html

                     

                    7th Gen Intel® Core™ Processor Families Specification Update:

                    http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/processors/core/7th-gen-core-family-spec-update.html

                     

                    Datasheet, Vol. 1: 7th Gen Intel® Core™ Processor I/O for U/Y Platform:

                    http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/processors/core/7th-gen-core-family-mobile-u-y-processor-lines-i-o-datasheet-vol-1.html

                     

                    Datasheet, Vol. 2: 7th Gen Intel® Core™ Processor I/O for U/Y Platform:

                    http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/processors/core/7th-gen-core-family-mobile-u-y-processor-lines-i-o-datasheet-vol-2.html

                     

                    7th Gen Intel® Processor I/O for U/Y Platforms Specification Update:

                    http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/processors/core/7th-gen-core-family-mobile-u-y-processor-lines-i-o-spec-update.html

                     

                    Hope this information helps.

                     

                    Regards,

                    Amy C.

                    • 7. Re: Dell XPS 13 2-in-1 i7-7Y75 constantly power limit throttled and frequently at .4-.8Ghz
                      LinusHellstrom

                      I have the same model Xps 13 2 in 1 and can confirm that its slower than anything i can think of, writing this message even was a strungle.

                      All bios settings are untouched.

                      No matter if the computer is cool its just soooo slow. Opening a browser and listening to spotify at the same time makes the music stop while the browser is starting.

                      It's totally useless.

                       

                      I havent contacted Dell yet, did they say anything ? Can they refund it or change modell.. anything?!

                      • 8. Re: Dell XPS 13 2-in-1 i7-7Y75 constantly power limit throttled and frequently at .4-.8Ghz
                        DAVECPACPU

                        I"m still waiting on Dell.  I wonder if yours is doing the same thing as mine, namely that as the CPU usage % increases, the CPU speed decreases.  Here's 2 tests you can try:

                        1. Processor Speed vs Usage - Does your processor speed decrease whenever your cpu usage increases?

                        • Launch Resource Monitor (Windows Key - enter "resmon")
                        • Click the "CPU" tab
                        • If needed, expand the right pane (click arrow on far right), so you can see the real-time chart of CPU Usage(green line) and Maximum Frequency(blue line)
                        • Now, watch to see how the 2 interact with each other under various circumstances.  Does the blue line drop substantially (like down to 80%, 50%, 25%) as the green line increases?  Try various situations like:
                          • no apps running, low cpu% usage
                          • launching lots of apps at the same time- high cpu usage %
                          • entering a bunch of text as fast as you can in Word, or Excel, or Notepad, or Gmail, or anything

                        2. CPU Usage Allocation - Does your processor usage % increase dramatically whenever you are "doing something" such as entering text?

                        • Launch Task Manager (Windows Key - enter "taskman")
                        • Click the "Processes" tab
                        • Make sure it's sorted by CPU% (click on the CPU column header)
                        • Observe the CPU% while you are doing nothing
                        • Launch an app such as Word, Excel, Outlook - if not one of them, try something like Notepad or even just your browser
                          • Observe how much CPU% that app is using while it sits idle.  And how much your overall CPU% is used.
                          • Now, while typing text really fast in the app, observe how much that app's CPU% increases and how much your overall CPU% increases.  (hint: if you click the app in Task Manager first, so it is highlighted, its easier to observe)
                          • For me, I get the following, for example:
                            • NOTEPAD
                              • IDLE = 0%
                              • while typing text = 5.7%
                            • EXCEL
                              • Launching = 20%
                              • IDLE = 0%
                              • while typing text = 25%
                              • (i'm entering text and hitting the ENTER key really fast, repeatedly)

                         

                        3. UNDER LOAD - (this is a simple way to put the CPU under a load and see how it behaves)  (I'm no expert, this is just what I do) (do at your own risk/discretion)

                        • I do both the above tests while my CPU is placed under load of 25%+, 50%+, etc. to see how it behaves
                          • 1st I create a simple batch file that will run an infinite loop to eat up CPU%.
                            • Open Notepad.  Enter 3 lines
                              • @echo off
                              • :loop
                              • goto loop
                            • Save the file to the desktop as "LoadCPU.bat"  (note: it has to end with ".bat", not with ".txt")
                          • Whenever you double-click on the file you just created it will run the batch file.  It will be an empty black window. It will continue to run until you kill it by clicking the "x" close button on it.
                          • While its running observe both of the above tests.
                          • If you double-click it a 2nd time, it will launch a 2nd instance, and will eat up even more CPU.  You can do it 3 times, 4 times, etc.
                        • For me, when I have 1 instance of the batch file running, it uses about 25% of my CPU.  If I then start entering text in Excel, the Excel starts using 20% of my CPU.  Now my overall CPU% gets over 50% and things start to really slow down, Excel lags and can't keep up with my typing, the processor speed (the blue line in Resource Monitor) drops down to 80% or worse.

                         

                        But hey, the good news is, according to Intel and Dell everything is just fine, so yipee!

                         

                        (i'll post back here if I get any helpful response from Dell)

                        • 9. Re: Dell XPS 13 2-in-1 i7-7Y75 constantly power limit throttled and frequently at .4-.8Ghz
                          LinusHellstrom

                          I tried some different loads and for some reason the cpu throttle down when its not suppose to and the blue line drops and the slooooow mode apears.

                           

                          However, i bought a new dockingstation the recommended Dell Thunderbolt one and it now seems to work better (less bad). Its back at work and didnt have time to make alot of tests but it didnt dive to the .4 ghz it usually does. Will run some more test next week.

                          • 10. Re: Dell XPS 13 2-in-1 i7-7Y75 constantly power limit throttled and frequently at .4-.8Ghz
                            DAVECPACPU

                            Ive been using the thunderbolt since day 1 and done many tests both connected to it and not.  So far Im getting poor performance either way.  Interested to see how yours turns out.

                             

                            Dell called and flashed my bios, and I showed them the problem. They escalated the issue to a higher level that includes engineers and programmers.  They said it will be a few days.  They also said they might just do a refund.

                            • 11. Re: Dell XPS 13 2-in-1 i7-7Y75 constantly power limit throttled and frequently at .4-.8Ghz
                              LinusHellstrom

                              Somehow things work better with the dockingstation, Its the TB16 Model:K16A

                              The periods when you couldnt even write an email doesnt happen.

                              It still isn't lightning fast but the dips when "total cpu" goes to .4GHz when it should be maxing are gone.

                              Feels power related?

                              • 12. Re: Dell XPS 13 2-in-1 i7-7Y75 constantly power limit throttled and frequently at .4-.8Ghz
                                chadotter

                                Do you have Intel Dynamic Platform and Thermal Framework (DPTF) installed?  I have an XPS 13 2-in-1 and there was a period of time where Dell had a web error that dropped it off the driver page. It is critical to achieving best performance on this platform.

                                 

                                Also, I saw that C-State Support was listed as OFF.  It should absolutely be ON.

                                • 13. Re: Dell XPS 13 2-in-1 i7-7Y75 constantly power limit throttled and frequently at .4-.8Ghz
                                  DAVECPACPU

                                  Yes, the DPTF was installed.  Ultimately I finally got Dell to refund my purchase due to this being a scam. 

                                   

                                  Here's why I say it was a scam:

                                   

                                  1. This chip is the lowest performing chip at only 4.5W TDP.  It is NOT and should never be advertised as, a "high performance" CPU. 

                                  2. This chip has configurable TDP that allows the manufacturer, Dell in this case, to lower the TDP - essentially causing it to more easily hit PL throttling limits and getting throttled.

                                  However, Dell lists on its webpage that the chip will get "up to" 3.6GHz.  Well, it is impossible for it to ever get turbo boosted up to 3.6GHz with the settings that Dell put on it.  So it is a lie.

                                  3. Intel used to have a naming convention that the average (like me, before all this crap) could understand.  But they took their M series chips and renamed some of them as i7 chips.  This chip, the i7-7Y75 was originally an M series chip- the slowest, lowest performing chips that they make.  They were designed for tablets, iPads, Kindles, etc. that don't have fans.  So they were low heat, low battery usage, and as a tradeoff LOW PERFORMANCE / SLOW.  But now, Intel, and Dell, are complicit in lying to their customers by calling this chips "High Performance" "i7" chips.  What a crock!  These chips should never be placed in a laptop that is advertised as "Business" and "High Performance" and "Up To 3.6GHz"- all phrases that Dell uses to sell this XPS 13 2-in-1, yet none of it is true.

                                  • 14. Re: Dell XPS 13 2-in-1 i7-7Y75 constantly power limit throttled and frequently at .4-.8Ghz
                                    DAVECPACPU

                                    4. Also,  I have multiple chat sessions with Dell Support promising that the slowest the chip would run would be 1.3GHz, and that the turbo boost and other settings would only INCREASE the speed, with it being boosted UP whenever it was under load.  Yet I have numerous screenshots showing the CPU acting the exact opposite.  When under load, the chip slows down to 0.8GHz, and even as slow as 0.4GHz.  I have lots of screenshots showing it running steadily for long durations a 0.4GHz.  (And by running a monitoring tool like HWINFO, you can see that its because its beeing PL throttled.)

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