13 Replies Latest reply on Jun 19, 2017 10:29 AM by Intel Corporation

    USB Audio drop outs when mouse display pointer trails disabled (which is default)

    rgIntel

      It's really weired but true - and I'm not alone.

       

      When I listen e.g. to

      https://soundcloud.com/pierreghiringhelli/blondie-heart-of-glass-oliver

      and moving the mouse around, hover links, etc. I have audio drop outs and crackles on my professional external USB 3.0 Apollo Twin USB (not on the on-board Audio).

       

      Although I've tried all other things (power management, etc.) nothing helped to avoid the problem.

       

      I've searched around and found this very interesting problem - near the same hardware as I'm using:

      https://superuser.com/questions/1137033/usb-lag-when-mouse-cursor-changes

       

      I've enabled Mouse Properties / Pointer Options / Display Pointer Trails (long) (which I normally don't want of course) on the MS default mouse driver ...

       

      AND REALLY: NO AUDIO DROP OUTS ANYMORE !!! This is really weired !!!

       

      I'm reporting this on Intel Chipset (hopefully correct with USB) because the other user said it's happen with Intel USB and he is using an i7-6900K which has no graphics processor built-in.

       

      My System Info:

       

      - OS: Windows 10 Pro, 64bit, Version 1607, 14393.1198

      - Motherboard: Asus Maximus IX Hero (latest BIOS 0906)

      - CPU: Intel i7-7700, 3.6 GHz

      - Mouse: Wireless Logitech Performance Mouse

        (MS default mouse driver 10.0.14393.0)

      - Keyboard: Wireless Logitech Keyboard K800

        (mouse+keyboard connected on one USB 2.0 front on Chieftec Dragon)

      - External Sound: Apollo Twin USB 3.0 (Driver 9.1 & 9.2)

        (connected on one back USB 3.0 on Asus MB)

      - Intel Graphics 630 (Driver 21.20.16.4627)

       

      As the other user on superuser.com wrote:

       

      "I can’t really comprehend why this happening, how could such “cosmetic” option affect all the USB devices in the system? I’ve set the trail distance to be as short, as possible, but it’s still noticeable and quite distracting, so I’m looking for a way to fix the issue without enabling the trails."

       

      I don't noticed other USB devices problems until yet and I've to try the "short" setting with "Display Pointer Trails" for the next days.

       

      Personally I think it's a "deeper" problem and top level support of Intel and Microsoft and maybe Asus could identify the problem together?

       

      I'm ready and open for tests and more required info of course.

        • 1. Re: USB Audio drop outs when mouse display pointer trails disabled (which is default)
          Intel Corporation
          This message was posted on behalf of Intel Corporation

          Hello rgIntel,
           
          I understand audio drops out when you move the mouse on the screen.
           
          Let me apologize for any inconvenience this issue may be causing to you.
           
          What happens is that USB 3.0 drivers for Windows* 10 have been developed by Microsoft* directly.  We do not provide USB 3.0 drivers for Windows 10*.
           
          What I can recommend is contacting Universal Audio directly so they can try to reproduce the issue in their lab with the exact same device model.  If they can reproduce the issue in their lab then they should be able to find root cause of the problem.  This link will give you their contact information https://help.uaudio.com/hc/en-us/articles/210253543
           
          Regards,
          Fred D.

          • 2. Re: USB Audio drop outs when mouse display pointer trails disabled (which is default)
            rgIntel

            Hi,

             

            to contact Universal Audio regarding my external USB audio interfrace isn't productive (although I will send them this link of this thread for information), because please read the link

             

            https://superuser.com/questions/1137033/usb-lag-when-mouse-cursor-changes

             

            posted above - where another user reports the same problem on an USB 2.0 ! audio interface from another company (Roland):

             

            "audio drops out (I use an external USB audio interface)" on USB 2.0 Audio Interface (Roland QUAD-CAPTURE).

             

            With my previous motherboard Gigabyte GA-P55A-UD4 - with NEC USB 3.0/2.0 controller (http://www.gigabyte.de/Motherboard/GA-P55A-UD4-rev-10#sp) I had no problems. Also same Windows 10 version was installed.

             

            The audio interface receives the audio data and the trigger problem is the disabled mouse display pointer trails (default). Some internal hardware or controller firmware things happen when disabled - and not when enabled (except if set to short - as the other used has posted).

             

            So the common denominator of the problem is (currently) "Intel USB controller" although Microsoft might be also contacted (and I think you have much better contacts to someone as I have) - why enabling mouse display pointer trails (long) avoids the problem.

             

            Is there a way to reproduce it (with Asus motherboard and external USB audio interface) - like here https://communities.intel.com/thread/114464 (last thread entry by Intel - Amy C.) ?

             

            Thanks a lot,

            Robert

            • 3. Re: USB Audio drop outs when mouse display pointer trails disabled (which is default)
              Intel Corporation
              This message was posted on behalf of Intel Corporation

              Hello rgIntel,
               
              What happens is that if the issue is related to the USB 3.0 driver this needs to be checked by Microsoft* directly.  USB 3.0 drivers are provided by Microsoft* only.
               
              You may try checking with Microsoft* if there is any other driver you can install for the USB 3.0 ports.  This link will give you their contact information https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/contactus/
               
              Regards,
              Fred D.

              • 4. Re: USB Audio drop outs when mouse display pointer trails disabled (which is default)
                rgIntel

                It's not only USB 3.0 related. It also happens on USB 2.0 devices - as I wrote above - see the user on https://superuser.com/questions/1137033/usb-lag-when-mouse-cursor-changes

                 

                I've also set and tried in BIOS various settings to avoid audio drop outs

                 

                - Intel speed Step => disabled

                - Turbo Mode => disabled

                - CPU C-States => disabled

                - Intel Speed Shift => disabled

                - CFG Lock => enabled

                 

                as many other users are having - which you can find a lot over the internet and recommended by various major music software & hardware companies.

                 

                The mysterious thing is - that "something" (processor, pcie, usb, motherboard, etc.) happens anywhere when Mouse Properties / Pointer Options / Display Pointer Trails (long) is disabled by default - that it results in audio crackles.

                 

                There are no audio drop outs when Pointer Trails (long) is enabled. I rarely notice audio drop outs when I set it to short(er).

                 

                So something CPU related happens, reduces power, something is idle - which is not the case if something more is "to do" (painting the pointer trails).

                 

                I think it's not an Intel Graphics 630 problem - because the user from the superuser.com forum does not have this Intel Graphics on his processor (as far as I know).

                And I am sure it is not a Microsoft problem - I don't had this problem on my old GigaByte motherboard, older i5 processor (from 2010) with Windows 10, 64-bit.

                 

                Some more Intel recommendations (BIOS settings?) - I am not a hardware technician - would be welcome.

                • 5. Re: USB Audio drop outs when mouse display pointer trails disabled (which is default)
                  Intel Corporation
                  This message was posted on behalf of Intel Corporation

                  Hello rgIntel,
                   
                  Do you know if the issue happens as well on Windows 7*?  The other customers who are reporting the same issue appear to be using Windows 10* as well.
                   
                  Is it possible for you to check if issue happens or not in Windows 7* when using the Intel USB 3.0 controller?
                   
                  Regards,
                  Fred D.

                  • 6. Re: USB Audio drop outs when mouse display pointer trails disabled (which is default)
                    rgIntel

                    Hi,

                     

                    sorry for the delayed reply.

                     

                    I can't test Windows 7 anymore (don't have it) and Windows 7 is also not supported by MS with i7-7700 - Kaby Lake - as far as I know.

                     

                    In the meantime I did the Creators Update and the drivers have been update to Windows 10 Pro Version 1703, OS build 15063.332.

                     

                    Now (and I'm sure it was not before) - I notice audio crackles also when Display Pointer Trails (long) is enabled - but not very often as when disabled by default.

                     

                    I did some LatencyMon tests + SystemInformation export for Universal Audio (they are also interested in why it happens).

                     

                    You can download the .zip file from here (available for 7 days): https://we.tl/eTQsneei2U

                     

                    The .zip files contains:

                     

                    1_SystemInformationFile.nfo

                    2_LM_AudioPlayed-MovedMouseWithDisabled.png

                    2_LM_AudioPlayed-MovedMouseWithDisabled.txt

                    ... Default Windows Pointer Trails (long) disabled (Windows default)

                    2_LM_AudioPlayed-MovedMouseWithEnabledLong.png

                    2_LM_AudioPlayed-MovedMouseWithEnabledLong.txt

                    ... Default Windows Pointer Trails (long) enabled (very rare audio crackles)

                    2_LM_NoAudioPlayed-MovedMouseWithDisabled.txt

                    ... Default Windows Pointer Trails (long) disabled (Windows default)

                    ... and played no audio!

                     

                    I will also test the whole situation on Friday morning on my laptop Lenovo IdeaPad Y580 i7-3630QM - same Windows 10 version.

                     

                    I will also try to make a screen recording video where you can hear and see the test.

                     

                    Thanks a lot

                    Robert

                    • 7. Re: USB Audio drop outs when mouse display pointer trails disabled (which is default)
                      Intel Corporation
                      This message was posted on behalf of Intel Corporation

                      Hello rgIntel,
                       
                      Thanks for the additional information you sent to us.
                       
                      If possible ask Universal Audio if they can reproduce the issue in their lab.  If they can reproduce it then they should be able to find root cause of the problem.
                       
                      Please also try testing the other computer you mentioned, and let me know if you get the same issue or not.
                       
                      Regards,
                      Fred

                      • 8. Re: USB Audio drop outs when mouse display pointer trails disabled (which is default)
                        rgIntel

                        I just tested the USB 3 audio interface on my laptop - NO PROBLEMS. NO CRACKLES.

                         

                        Laptop details:

                         

                        Lenovo Ideapad Y580 (from August 2013 or 14!) with i7-3630QM@2.4GHz.

                        Windows 10 64bit - same version as on my main PC - installed from scratch on 2017-03 incl. all updates.

                        With default mouse settings (display pointer trails disabled).

                        There are no special performance settings in BIOS.

                        Power Management disabled on USB Hub's.

                         

                        LatencyMon 6.5.1 report looks great.

                         

                        Laptop_LatencyMon_Report-AllOK.png

                         

                        So - I don't think its a MS USB 2 or 3 driver problem. I always used Windows 7 + 10 on this laptop with Serato Scratch Live and SL 1 audio interface (USB 1.1) - connected on USB 2.

                         

                        The problem is anywhere between ASUS + INTEL processor + (new) INTEL USB 3 - in my opinion.

                         

                        So who can handle the problem? Asus, Intel, MS ?

                         

                        Tomorrow I will receive a replacement of my ASUS motherboard because of a bad HDMI connector, then I have to reinstall Windows 10 again (latest version downloaded today) on Friday morning.

                        • 9. Re: USB Audio drop outs when mouse display pointer trails disabled (which is default)
                          Intel Corporation
                          This message was posted on behalf of Intel Corporation

                          Hello rgIntel,
                           
                          Thanks for the additional information you sent to me.
                           
                          Please let me know if issue persists or not after reinstalling the operating system in your new motherboard.
                           
                          Regards,
                          Fred D.

                          • 10. Re: USB Audio drop outs when mouse display pointer trails disabled (which is default)
                            rgIntel

                            Hi,

                            I will be back on Thursday (bank holiday) and will retest all situations on this day.

                            As I noticed yesterday - it might be a network driver problem. I only noticed the audio drop outs when I hover over links which request a webserver ("ajax" programmed websites).

                            Normal (older) websites where only the color changes when I hover a link - then it looks like I don't have audio drop outs.

                             

                            But I will try all on bank holiday and reply asap.

                             

                            Best regards

                            Robert

                            • 11. Re: USB Audio drop outs when mouse display pointer trails disabled (which is default)
                              Intel Corporation
                              This message was posted on behalf of Intel Corporation

                              Hello rgIntel,
                               
                              Thanks for letting me know that.  Please update this thread at your convenience.
                               
                              Regards,
                              Fred D.

                              • 12. Re: USB Audio drop outs when mouse display pointer trails disabled (which is default)
                                rgIntel

                                I was able to avoid the problem.

                                 

                                The support from Universal Audio told me to use the new added feature "USB Safety Buffer" (in latest driver 9.2).

                                http://www.uaudio.com/media/support/downloads/Apollo_Software_Manual_USB_v92.pdf

                                (search for "Safety Buffer")

                                 

                                I've increased it from "Minimal" to "Small" and all audio crackles are away.

                                 

                                You might be interested in to search for "USB audio streaming protocol"

                                e.g. Fundamentals of USB Audio | EDN

                                "USB Audio 2.0" is supported in Windows 10 Creator's update.

                                 

                                Also a very good article if someone is interested:

                                Windows USB Audio Drivers: understanding and troubleshooting - Powered by Kayako Help Desk Software

                                 

                                However - LatencyMon 6.5.1 still reports dxgkrnl.sys, DirectX Graphics Kernel with ~ 1.59-1.65 ms as highest execution (when audio crackle happens)  .. and the typical message that I might experience audio drop outs - but I don't have anymore with the "Small" setting (of course I have to test it for the next weeks).

                                 

                                I've also tested ASMedia 3.1 and PCIE/USB3 Startech PEXUSB3S44V card - with "Minimal" setting - also no luck.

                                 

                                Finally mysterious that enabled "Display Pointer Trails" (fast) reduces the amount of audio crackles to 10 % and much more mysterious that on my older laptop I don't have audio drop outs with "Minimum" setting (same Windows 10 build).

                                 

                                Because of the fact that it works on the older laptop with same Windows 10 installation and settings without any problems - I think this has to be an Intel Graphics 630 driver problem (which should be called by dxgkrnl.sys) and is finally responsible for the highest execution time and finally for the audio drop outs. I will start a new thread regarding this in the Graphics driver forum.

                                • 13. Re: USB Audio drop outs when mouse display pointer trails disabled (which is default)
                                  Intel Corporation
                                  This message was posted on behalf of Intel Corporation

                                  Hello rgIntel,
                                   
                                  I am glad to hear you were able to find a way to avoid the audio crackles.
                                   
                                  Thanks for the additional information you shared with us.
                                   
                                  Regards,
                                  Fred D.