Solved: Camera SR300 without the dev-kit?

idata · ‎04-23-2017

Hello, I have a question.

I'm looking to get the camera SR300, but I don't intend to use it for development. just to use it along with a software compatible with it. The problem is that I only see a developer kit in click.intel.com, and during my researches, I saw what seemed to not be a developer kit on mouser.com, but it says it's a camera module. I'm not really sure if a camera module is the camera I'm looking for. If I want the camera, do I have to purchase the developer kit coming with it, or there is a way to purchase the camera alone?

Thank you very much for your help!

MartyG · ‎04-23-2017

You can purchase the caseless circuit board version of the SR300 - which is what I believe you saw on Mouser - without having to buy the Developer Kit (which is a plug-in USB camera). Intel do not sell these camera boards directly in their store. You should order them from an Intel approved distributor, of which Mouser is one of them.

Reading your question though, I think that the Developer Kit USB camera from the Intel store is actually the one you need if you just want to run existing RealSense applications. Don't worry about the 'Developer' reference in the camera name - the Kit camera is just like a webcam you would buy off the shelf from a store. 'Developer' just refers to the fact that you can create your own apps with it, but you don't have to use it that way.

Before you order, please make sure that your PC meets the minimum specifications of the SR300. These are Windows 10, USB 3.0 and a 6th generation Intel Core 'Skylake' processor or newer (for example, the 7th generation Kaby Lake).

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MartyG · ‎04-23-2017

You can purchase the caseless circuit board version of the SR300 - which is what I believe you saw on Mouser - without having to buy the Developer Kit (which is a plug-in USB camera). Intel do not sell these camera boards directly in their store. You should order them from an Intel approved distributor, of which Mouser is one of them.

Reading your question though, I think that the Developer Kit USB camera from the Intel store is actually the one you need if you just want to run existing RealSense applications. Don't worry about the 'Developer' reference in the camera name - the Kit camera is just like a webcam you would buy off the shelf from a store. 'Developer' just refers to the fact that you can create your own apps with it, but you don't have to use it that way.

Before you order, please make sure that your PC meets the minimum specifications of the SR300. These are Windows 10, USB 3.0 and a 6th generation Intel Core 'Skylake' processor or newer (for example, the 7th generation Kaby Lake).

idata · ‎04-24-2017

Alright, so I wanted to be sure about what I saw on Mouser isn't really what I was looking for. I know I can ignore the dev-kit coming with the camera, but I hoped I could purchase the camera without the dev-kit. From what I understand, I don't have the choice. (Unless I take the caseless circuit and do everything myself, but that's out of my skills so...)

Thank you very much for enlightening me about the differences between those versions. I guess I will simply go with the dev-kit version on the intel store.

PS: Oh, I did notice I have to go to windows 10 to use it (which I did), but I missed that it requires at least a 6th generation Intel Core... My motherboard only has an 1150 socket (and I recently got the best CPU with it, which is a 4th generation..) I guess I have to change my motherboard and get a new one with a 6th (or 7th) generation Intel core, or I can forget about getting the RealSense camera?

MartyG · ‎04-24-2017

It is easier to understand if you totally ignore the Developer Kit part of the name and just assume that you are purchasing a really advanced webcam.

The term 'developer kit' can cause confusion because it is not applied consistently by all manufacturers. For example, the dev kit for a games console may be a special version of that console that has features not present on the retail console, whereas the dev kit for a smartphone such as iPhone or Android may just be a software package for creating phone apps.

The dev features of RealSense are provided by its separate 'RealSense SDK' software package, which is downloaded rather than being an integrated part of the camera. So in a sense, the developer features are already separate when you purchase an SR300 Developer Kit.

idata · ‎04-24-2017

Yes, that's what I understood, thank you. ^^

However, if I don't meet the minimum required (here, the fact I run a 4th generation processor), there is no chance the camera works? Would I need to get a new motherboard accepting a higher generation of the intel CPU?

MartyG · ‎04-24-2017

Most of the features of the SR300 aside from basic RGB video (e.g Skype video) and raw camera data streaming would be inaccessible on a 4th generation processor. The older R200 camera is compatible with 4th gen though. You can also purchase the R200 from Intel's store.

You should bear in mind that dev kit support for the R200 has now ended. However, if you are planning on just using the camera to run existing applications then that should not be a problem for you.

It would be helpful if you could tell me the kind of applications you would hope to use the camera for.

If the SR300 is what you absolutely require, however, then yes you would need to upgrade your motherboard and CPU, or purchase a new desktop PC without a monitor that has a Skylake CPU. Buying a pre-made PC can work out cheaper than buying individual parts yourself because of the discounts on parts that manufacturers get from bulk-buying.

idata · ‎04-24-2017

Yes, I'm sorry, the more information, the better you can help me.

I'm looking for a RealSense camera to use with Facerig for live videos and youtube videos in a professional way (using the RealSense compatibility for high recognition)

If you're not sure about what is it, here is the page: http://store.steampowered.com/app/420824/ FaceRig support for Intel® RealSense™ on Steam

I also noticed it requires either the SR300 or the F200 camera, but I have the feeling with some research the F200 isn't produced anymore... Do you think a 4th gen CPU still can do the work a F200 could do or I would really need to get a new CPU? (And then a new Motherboard)

Thank you.

MartyG · ‎04-24-2017

Yes, I know FaceRig. It's the main option for R200 users looking for an alternative to Faceshift (which doesn't work with modern RealSense cameras since Apple bought Faceshift in 2015).

There is a free version of Facerig for RealSense cameras called IRFaceRig, but the minimum spec for that is a 5th gen processor. Whereas FaceRig works with general webcams. RealSense cameras can be used like an ordinary webcam thanks to their RGB video features.

The way I read the information is that RealSense support for Facerig (the full one, not the free IR one) is for F200 and SR300, and it provides additional tracking capabilities. My assumption is that an R200 would be treated like an ordinary non-RealSense webcam by Facerig and would still work, but less efficiently than with a SR300 or F200. This is speculation though rather than based on hard fact, since I could not find an example of an R200 being used with FaceRig.

The F200 is a 4th gen camera, as it was released on sale about 6 months before the R200. So it would work with your 4th gen PC, if you could find an F200. They are "rarer than chicken teeth" now though, as the old saying goes. The easiest way to get one now is built into a PC such as a laptop, which amounts to the same thing as buying a new PC (though undoubtedly cheaper, since the PC would be older).

An alternative face-morphing program to FaceRig for the R200 is Uraniom.

http://www.uraniom.co/ Uraniom - Universal 3D avatar for VR/AR apps and video games

https://realsenseapp.intel.com/apps/uraniom/ Uraniom - Intel RealSense

Edit: it occurred to me that although Uraniom works with R200, there is not confirmation about whether the software would work with a 4th gen processor.

jb455 · ‎04-24-2017

If you just want a camera to use as a consumer the http://en.europe.creative.com/p/web-cameras/blasterx-senz3d Creative BlasterX and https://www.razerzone.com/gb-en/gaming-broadcaster/razer-stargazer Razer Stargazer are the two commercially available ones I'm aware of (you can also use these for development if you need to). You may be alright with a 4th gen chip - I'm using an i7-4810 and had no problems with the SR300 but you may have different luck!

MartyG · ‎04-24-2017

Thanks for the input JB!

idata · ‎04-24-2017

Thank you for the suggestions. Sadly, indeed, IRFaceRig needs at least a 5th gen processor.

As of the R200 one, I checked on the forums of Facerig, and someone already asked about the camera R2. A simple reply from a developer: "For now just these two F200 or SR300". I guess I can forget about the R200 one.

About what JB suggested, I guess it would work for IRFaceRig, but seeing the lack of a workshop page, I think they don't allow us to import models (as I intend to import a personal model to use with facerig)

Also, thank you for the suggestion about Uraniom. I have to admit it looks like a great program, but unless you can import models (from, for instance, blender) instead of just doing your avatar there, it doesn't fit my needs. (As I'm interested in a face-tracking program and not a face-morphing one ^^")

I have to admit that I wouldn't mind a cheap solution, but I also looked for the F200 for a while, and unable to find any for sale... ._. I feel that the only solution remains to upgrade my computer. Still, thank you very much for your help.

MartyG · ‎04-24-2017

The options become even more limited if you are looking for the ability for export to Blender. It is not hopeless though. There is a discussion on this subject from 10 days ago, in which ReconstructMe and Ni-Mate were identified as the main candidates for using an R200 this way.

One of the two most common laptops with a built-in F200 that are mentioned on this forum is the HP Envy 15. Example:

https://support.hp.com/us-en/product/hp-envy-15-v000-notebook-pc-series/7527533/model/7734384/document/c04537956 HP ENVY 15-v010nr Notebook PC Product Specifications | HP® Customer Support

The other F200 laptop that appears on here most is the Lenovo Y700.

http://gadgets.ndtv.com/laptops/reviews/lenovo-ideapad-y700-15isk-review-865475 Lenovo Ideapad Y700-15ISK Review | NDTV Gadgets360.com

Of course, part of the reason they appear on here frequently is because they have some problem or other that needs to be solved! There is enough of a knowledge base now about fixing these issues that it may be worth getting one.

idata · ‎04-24-2017

A HP laptop? Nop thanks. Already got some experiences with them, not going to buy anything from HP anymore.

Never heard of the Lenovo one though. But, though some research, it's a lot unavailable in many shops... except one. 1188€... I feel it's a bit expensive. (Assuming I already have a Nvidia GeForce 1080 Ti on my desktop, I would feel sad I would have to switch to a laptop and not being able to use its potential...)

Yeah, in addition to videos, a potential use would also be to use Facerig as face-cam while streaming games. (I never saw anybody doing so, so I thought that, with a custom imported character, it would really help for a success there )

So yeah, already having the graphic card and a good box, I think I would prefer to stay on my desktop computer for streaming.

I looked for ReconstructMe, but once again, it seems to be made for making models, not for face tracking.

About Ni-Mate... I will see and check it, mostly hoping Windows can see it as a virtual webcam. However, the free version seems more like a demo, while I would need to pay monthly if I really want to use it for my projects...

MartyG · ‎04-24-2017

With some labor, you can build for free your own real-time avatar face animation system with RealSense in the Unity game creation engine. Here's a tech demo I built of one of my game avatar's doing face lip-syncing in real time to audio input into a mic.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBp_9_mVpUw "My Father's Face" Tech Trailer 4 - Lip Synching And Facial Expression From An MP3 - YouTube

You can also record an audio track into an mp3 file and have the mouth sync to that. Here's a test vid from my private 'unlisted' videos where the mouth animates to the tune of Disney's TaleSpin (much more roughly, since the mouth picks up all the background effects in the tune instead of it being "clean" input like the first video).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gfOgDF2AixY Auto Speech Test - YouTube

idata · ‎04-24-2017

Oh, about the avatar, I already commissioned someone who uses a modelisation software. Basically, the avatar would be the dragon you see in the picture I have as an avatar on this site.

Also, I'm personally very bad about anything artistic, so I would prefer to not take the risk to make my own model... x.x

Also, to be honest, the mouth animation looks... really strange on the video x:

MartyG · ‎04-24-2017

It's an old avatar model on the video. The avatar is far more advanced now. So no offence taken - those old models were quaint.

So yes, if you want to use your current desktop PC and you have the skills to do a board and CPU upgrade, that may be your ideal option. Good luck!

idata · ‎04-24-2017

Oh, yeah. I have a low degree as a computer technician, even if it was only a step before having my current degree as a software developer (The school I wanted to go in required at least a vocational baccalaureate diploma about anything computer related, and what seemed the most suitable for me was computer technician).

Well, just for saying I know how to build a computer ^^ While looking for cheap ways to get to what I want to do, I was also looking for what computer parts I would need. (Assuming to the fact I don't need a new box nor a graphic card, I can get it for cheaper than the laptop you suggested, including buying the SR300 camera xP That's why I wasn't much motivated about the idea to get the laptop. However, I still admit the design was great.)

Anyway, thank you very much for trying to help me. Well, you still did help me by replying my initial question. And anyway, I wanted one day or another to upgrade my computer (besides my graphic card, which I already did not long ago). Just hoped I could save for now and do it later, but I think I still can afford it now if it will help for my project.

Thank you again for your support!

jb455 · ‎04-24-2017

If I were you, I'd buy one of the Creative or Razer cameras (they're both the same internally, just in different cases) and try it on your PC - if it works, great; if not, send it back (assuming you live somewhere with buyers' rights - in the UK if you buy something online you can send it back within 2 weeks as long as you don't destroy it or the packaging) or upgrade your PC then.