1 2 3 Previous Next 33 Replies Latest reply on Sep 12, 2017 12:14 PM by Intel Corporation Go to original post
      • 15. Re: Intel 8265 ac constant high latency jitter
        Intel Corporation
        This message was posted on behalf of Intel Corporation

        Hello Trilby,

        We are glad to know that one of the problems was solved by using a fixed wireless channel. Regarding the other issue, keep in mind that sporadic ping spikes due to background network scanning are normal in wireless connections, having 50-100 ms in 10 minutes intervals is not high when compared to what other users have reported.

        We know there are ways to reduce this, like the ones mentioned in the AC 7260 related thread, for example the "ScanWhenAssociated" fix and using WLAN optimizer. However, we don't endorse/support these actions, and you can apply them at your own discretion.

        In our best effort, we would like to mention some features in Windows® 10 that also may cause sporadic ping spikes, as other users have reported:

        - About location services in Windows® 10:

        http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-10/location-service-privacy

        - WiFi Sense:

        http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-10/wi-fi-sense-faq

        - P2P updates in Windows*:

        https://communities.intel.com/thread/78067

        *Note: These links are being offered for your convenience and should not be viewed as an endorsement by Intel of the content, products, or services offered there.

        We checked the SSU log provided and there are a few things to consider:

        Receive Rate: 780 Mbps
        Transmit Rate: 780 Mbps
        Signal Strength: 95%

        An optimal 802.11ac 2x2 connection would have a rate of 867 Mbps and 99% signal strength. Maybe changing the antenna position, or using the Access point closer to the PC would help.

        Regards,
        Jonathan B.

        • 16. Re: Intel 8265 ac constant high latency jitter
          Trilby

          Ping spikes due to background network scans aren't normal or acceptable if you have explicitly asked your Wifi adapter not to perform them. Regardless of any other method of doing that, Windows 10 has a user interface option specifically designed for it, which is accessed from Control Panel -> Network and Sharing Centre -> (Connection Name) -> Wireless Properties. I've attached a screenshot of what it looks like on my system. If the option "Look for other wireless networks while connected to this network" is unchecked (as it is by default) then the adapter should not be automatically scanning for other networks, but the 8265 appears to disregard this option.

           

          For the reasons I described in my previous post, I know that the latency spikes correspond exactly to instances of the adapter performing automatic network scans, and are not caused by any other Windows functionality. For the avoidance of doubt: Windows Location services, Wifi Sense and peer-to-peer updates ("Updates from more than one place") are and always have been disabled on my system.

           

          I realise that 99% signal strength is better than 95%, but I don't think the extra 4% is going to make a difference to this problem. Regardless, as I write this my signal strength is showing 99% and the latency spike problem is still occurring, so that avenue of investigation can be discarded.

           

          My use case for this adapter is connecting to one and only one access point, and I never need the adapter to know about any other access points. I'm fairly certain that I can't be the only person in that situation, as it seems typical of a home user who has one wireless router for internet access. It's fine if the adapter performs automatic network scans as its default behaviour, but there needs to be some way for users to override that behaviour so that they can maintain a consistent and uninterrupted connection to a single access point if they decide to do so.

           

          If the ScanWhenAssocated registry setting and the WLAN Optimizer application aren't endorsed or supported (and they also have no effect), and the Windows option "Look for other wireless networks..." described above also has no effect, then what is the correct and supported way to prevent this adapter from automatically scanning for networks? If there is no way, then what is the procedure for requesting that it be added in a future driver update?

          1 of 1 people found this helpful
          • 17. Re: Intel 8265 ac constant high latency jitter
            Intel Corporation
            This message was posted on behalf of Intel Corporation

            Hello Trilby,

            Thank you for all the details you provided. We will look into this with our additional resources and will be updating as soon as we have more information about it.

            Regards,
            Jonathan B.

            • 18. Re: Intel 8265 ac constant high latency jitter
              Intel Corporation
              This message was posted on behalf of Intel Corporation

              Hello Trilby,

              This is likely caused by the periodic background scan.\

              Currently there is no way to disable this, the ScanWhenAssocated registry key has been removed in the recent drivers thus has no effect. We have placed a request with our development team to bring this back on a future driver version, but we cannot make any promises.
               
              A potential workaround that may mitigate the issue is to try to disable the wireless band(2.4G or 5G) that is not used in order to reduce the number of channels for scanning.

              For e.g if you use the 2.4G band, you can try to set Wireless Mode to 802.11g or 802.11b/g or if you use the 5G band then set this to 802.11a.

              Note the WiFi card will not be able to connect to other network on the frequency band that has been disabled in the above setting.

              Best regards,
              Carlos A.

              • 19. Re: Intel 8265 ac constant high latency jitter
                Intel Corporation
                This message was posted on behalf of Intel Corporation

                Hello Trilby,

                Please let us know if the information provided helped to clarify your inquiry, or if you have any additional questions.

                Regards,
                Jonathan B.

                • 20. Re: Intel 8265 ac constant high latency jitter
                  Trilby

                  Thank you for the replies, it's great to hear that a request has been submitted to the driver team to provide users with a way of disabling the automatic scans. I believe that would resolve the problems that the thread creator and I (and others) are seeing so hopefully it's something they'll be able to implement. I'd still consider this issue open until that is done though.

                  • 21. Re: Intel 8265 ac constant high latency jitter
                    Intel Corporation
                    This message was posted on behalf of Intel Corporation

                    Hello Trilby,

                    We appreciate your input and your feedback has been forwarded to the proper resources.
                    To summarize, currently it is not possible to disable background scanning completely and we cannot guarantee that this will change in the future. Nevertheless, the actions mentioned in this thread are good options if you need to minimize this condition.

                    Regards,
                    Jonathan B.

                    • 22. Re: Intel 8265 ac constant high latency jitter
                      alexei123

                      I have observed similar periodic high latency spikes on my Lenovo T570 (with AC 8265) after upgrading to the latest 19.50.1.5 Intel driver.

                      In my case it also manifested itself in reduced maximum transfer speeds (was getting capped around 1.5mbps). I suspect occasional high

                      latency wasn't letting TCP window grow big enough.

                       

                      Downgrading back to 19.20.0.6 driver fixed the issue.

                      1 of 1 people found this helpful
                      • 23. Re: Intel 8265 ac constant high latency jitter
                        Intel Corporation
                        This message was posted on behalf of Intel Corporation

                        Hello alexei123,

                         

                        Thanks for sharing this information. It will be very helpful for other users as well.
                        We have to keep in mind that each computer may have customizations in hardware and wireless drivers from the manufacturer, the latest generic drivers may not be the best option in all cases.

                         

                        Regards,
                        Jonathan B.

                        • 24. Re: Intel 8265 ac constant high latency jitter
                          Vinniemac

                          Actually I am glad I have stumbled across this post from the OP.

                           

                          I recently purchased one of these Intel AC 8265 cards, the all singing, all dancing MU-MIMO offering from Intel.

                           

                          I too have been seeing regular spikes, to the point actually that when it does spike it does cause jitter in VoIP calls and crackling when watching youtube or playing music on the network to the laptop.

                          I can see no logical explanation for these spikes other than Driver Optimisation or some kind of hardware issue with the card.

                           

                          It is like the card suddenly has a fit for no apparent reason and then calms down again.

                           

                          I actually have an Intel 3165, 8260, 7260 and 7265 all at my disposal to test and neither produce the latency that the 8265 produces.

                           

                          On top of the latency issues the latest 19.70.0.5 driver has appalling upstream throughput (My connection is 500/200 and I can barely hit 60Mbps upstream with the 19.70 driver), so I have had to use 19.60 which works fine in terms of throughput.

                           

                          While I do accept there are many factors that can cause latency, this one is firmly on your door Intel. You have enough comments here to at least debug as to why these issues are being caused. It is very likely driver optimisation, particularly in light of my experience above.

                           

                          While also we do have settings to adjust and I like the posters here have adjusted and tweaked to no avail, we cannot actually disable MU-MIMO like we can on other devices. I was hoping for driver support for MU-MIMO setting but it seems this has not happened yet. My router is full MU-MIMO support.

                           

                          So the question is. While is it only the Intel 8265 that exhibits this issue?

                          I am thinking driver optimisation. The drivers for Intel Wireless cards are all generic but this is an MU-MIMO Wave 2 card so in my opinion should have a dedicated driver as the fine tuning will be a lot more delicate than for standard models prior to the Intel 8265.

                           

                          I am hoping we can resolve this issue rather than the... Consult your Manufacturer or there are many things that can cause latency or The Intel 8265 is a very reliable card.

                          All answers other than "OK we seem to have a problem with this Intel 8265 card as it is and we will do our best to investigate"

                           

                          I am hoping we can have some answers, cheers.

                          • 25. Re: Intel 8265 ac constant high latency jitter
                            Intel Corporation
                            This message was posted on behalf of Intel Corporation

                            Hello Vinniemac,

                            We understand that your system is experiencing jitter, in this case we advise you to review and apply the actions mentioned in this thread as they have helped some users: Recommended settings, disable Bluetooth*, update Router firmware, check antenna connection, disable Windows* services that consume bandwidth, etc.

                            There are many possible causes for this behavior and we will be glad to take a closer look at your system, if you agree, please provide the following information:

                            - Download Intel® System Support Utility, run the tool and use it to create a report with all sections, once the report is created, click on the "Next" button. In the following screen, save the report to a file. Then use the Advanced editor options of the communities to add the resulting file to your post as an attachment.
                            - Was this adapter installed from factory with your PC?
                            - Access point model and firmware version.

                            Please keep in mind that you can also Contact Support to obtain personal assistance from one of our representatives.

                            Regards,
                            Jonathan B.

                            • 26. Re: Intel 8265 ac constant high latency jitter
                              Vinniemac

                              Hi Jonathan,

                               

                              Thanks for your reply.

                               

                              I had actually tried the various settings and items in this thread before posting, otherwise it is just another post. I have also followed your suggestions without success.

                               

                              I also actually issued the following command in 'command prompt' (elevated): BCDEDIT /SET DISABLEDYNAMICTICK YES

                              This actually helps a little with general latency but the card still spikes at various intervals.

                               

                              I have also found that if you run YouTube videos through Chrome then the latency is progressively worse than if you play them through Microsoft Edge.

                               

                              Then we have the issue of the latest Proset Wireless Driver 19.70.0.5/19.70.0.100 which definitely has poor performance on throughput in Windows 10 v1703 (Build 15063.483) compared to its predecessor 19.60.0.7 (This is the driver I have to currently use)

                               

                              I build my own machines so it is not a manufacturer installed Wireless card. Hence the reason I also have available to me the Intel 7260, 8260, 3165, 7265 also. All of which do not suffer from this issue.

                               

                              I am pretty convinced that it is Driver optimisation for the Intel 8265 as despite it's release date of Q1 2016 the card has only really just surfaced. They are very rare to buy from suppliers.

                               

                              It might also be worth to note that Proset Driver 19.20 has astonishing speeds and performance with the Intel 8265 but unfortunately it has compatibility issues that cause a BSOD in Windows 10 citing the 'NETwtw04' driver as the problem. So I cannot use this driver.

                              Windows 10 requires the NETwtw06 Driver for this card in order to work correctly.

                               

                              This might be where the issue is, all the other cards I have mentioned above work happily on the NETwtw04 driver but the 8265 does not.

                               

                              This is an issue I am happy to work with you over because the card itself is extremely stable and does perform well (With the right driver) but the fact you have to source the right driver from the Intel archives suggest that there are driver issues with this card, which I am sure will be fixed but Intel must take note of these issues and thoroughly test and debug them.

                               

                              My router for reference is the Netgear Nighthawk X10 R9000. It's fully MU-MIMO capable with HT160 channels so is future proof. There is no stability issues between router and Intel 8265 client. The router is running the latest firmware publically available.

                               

                              I await your response.

                               

                              Cheers

                              • 27. Re: Intel 8265 ac constant high latency jitter
                                Intel Corporation
                                This message was posted on behalf of Intel Corporation

                                Hello Vinniemac,

                                We will need additional details of your PC in order to provide further assistance. Also, keep in mind that Intel does not support, nor recommends custom integration of wireless adapters since this may lead to installation errors, connection issues, software error messages, and in some cases it may even be illegal.
                                Intel does not recommend end users install or upgrade the various Intel® Wireless Adapter. For more information, please check the following advisories:

                                Why Doesn't My Laptop Recognize My New Intel® Wireless Adapter?
                                Regulatory Information Regarding Hardware Installation or Upgrade

                                Please let us know the following:

                                - Provide the SSU log file, you can retrieve it using the steps provided before.
                                - Did your PC have WiFi from factory?
                                - Let us know the details of the devices involved, or how you are connecting the 8265 to your Motherboard.

                                Regards,
                                Jonathan B.

                                • 28. Re: Intel 8265 ac constant high latency jitter
                                  Vinniemac

                                  Hi Jonathan,

                                   

                                  Firstly the SSU Log is attached. You'll notice the manufacturer is Acer because that's the motherboard. It's a Chopper motherboard with an Intel N3700 soldered on.

                                  I purchased all the casing and other components separately from an Acer supplier.

                                   

                                  The Intel 8265 card, which has a generic hardware tag is attached to the M.2 Slot on the board. It is a 2230 form factor.

                                  There are no restrictions on the use of this card with the motherboard (No whitelist in BIOS, special pinouts etc...)

                                   

                                  Yes the original motherboard had Wireless from factory and this was an Intel AC 3165 card. M.2 slot 2230 form factor.

                                   

                                  It is worth to point there are some inaccuracies in the SSU log but these should not affect this case.

                                   

                                  The Wireless settings in the SSU log are the optimum settings for me to try to reduce the latency spiking somewhat at the expense of some throughput. I can assure you I have fully tested these and explored all the available advanced adapter properties.

                                   

                                  It is worth to point out that I am using the 19.60 Proset/Wireless software as the 19.70 version has terrible upstream throughput and poor downstream throughput. I do not know how 19.70 passed SQA testing but I hope this can be fixed asap.

                                   

                                  After consulting Acer because the motherboard is under warrantee they actually advised to get the drivers from Intel and it will be fine. There are very limited drivers that actually work with the Intel AC 8265 card. Anything earlier than 19.50 Proset/Wireless drivers cause a BSOD in Windows 10.

                                   

                                  Intel AC 8265 card is connected to a Netgear Nighthawk X10 (R9000) which is an extremely powerful router. It's connected full speed 866.7Mbps and over the 5Ghz Wireless band.

                                  MU-MIMO is enabled on the router so the Intel 8265 can take full advantage (Although it makes very little difference unless lots of devices have MU-MIMO)

                                   

                                  The crux of the issue is the cards operation with Windows 10 which I believe to be Driver support. I believe this quite simply because the Intel 3165, 7260, 8260 all work fine on the same drivers as the 8265 are running on. All 4 cards are M.2 2230 form factors.

                                  The only difference is this:

                                   

                                  Intel 3165 = 1x1 Wave 1 card (2nd Gen)

                                  Intel 7260 = 2x2 Wave 1 card

                                  Intel 8260 = 2x2 Wave 1 card (3rd Gen)

                                  Intel 8265 = 2x2 Wave 2 card MU-MIMO (4th Gen)

                                   

                                  So we could draw the conclusion that although the Intel 8265 is far more efficient and stable, the new technologies are causing problems.

                                   

                                  Definitely Intel SQA need to revisit the 19.70 Drivers and the Intel 8265 card with Windows 10 1703 (OS build 15063.483)

                                  Preferably with a 1Gbps Internet connection and Ookla as this is what I am running.

                                   

                                  In answer also to the question in your first paragraph, I have been building machines now for some years and there is no difference to me fitting these cards than a professional technician at an authorised centre for the manufacturer. There is just very little support available.

                                   

                                  I look forward to your response.

                                   

                                  Best Wishes

                                   

                                  Vince

                                  • 29. Re: Intel 8265 ac constant high latency jitter
                                    Intel Corporation
                                    This message was posted on behalf of Intel Corporation

                                    Hello Vinniemac,

                                    We checked the log and it looks normal, the data rate is 866.7 Mbps and the signal strength is 99%, the settings are the ones you would use for a normal connection.
                                    In this type of case, we would advise to use the drivers provided by the OEM, since the generic ones from our Download Center may not work well in some systems. We would like to mention that we've actually received positive feedback from the driver in PROset 19.70 when it's used in systems with the 8265 integrated from factory.

                                    At this point, we will be glad to pass your feedback to our additional resources. Also, we advise you to engage Acer support and follow any recommendations  they may have about this matter, the OEM support is the main source for assistance with your system and integrations: Frequently Asked Questions about Intel® Wireless Adapters.

                                    Regards,
                                    Jonathan B.