13 Replies Latest reply on Jul 15, 2016 11:42 AM by Intel Corporation

    NUC6i7KYK Triple Display issue

    ErnieE

      I have had my NUC6i7KYK for almost two months now and it has never worked 100%. The current unit is from an RMA..  This is a NEW thread after spending a crud load of time trouble shooting. For reference the prior threads are:

       

      NUC6i7KYK with Display Port 1.2 (MST)

      NUC6i7KYK Dual Display port (MST) with HDMI (0037/4463)

      NUC6i7KYK Dual Display Port display issues - black flickering

       

      Today I ran a number of tests. I have a semi-working (see the very end of this post) machine.  Semi-working is not acceptable.

       

      The NUC6i7KYK seems to have trouble handling multiple monitors with a 'fully loaded' configuration. You may or may NOT come to the same conclusion.

       

      -> indicates a cable or adapter (Left side is either the NUC or MST chain)

       

      ALL Displays are Dell U3014.  (On the back they say Dell U3014t)

       

      The underlined header indicates the change from the previous test. All tests using Windows 10 off an original USB stick (no Updates applied and minimal installed software)

       

      Fresh Install

      DP->mDP (MST) | mDP->DP | TB(USB 3.1)->DP->mDP

       

      Memory         16 GB

      SSD:           (1) Samsung 950 PRO M.2 (ACHI)

      Windows:       10240

      Firmware:      0037

      Video Driver:  4463  

       

       

       

       

      Add Memory

      DP->mDP (MST) | mDP->DP | TB(USB 3.1)->DP->mDP

       

      Memory         32 GB

      SSD:           (1) Samsung 950 PRO M.2 (ACHI)

      Windows:       10240

      Firmware:      0037

      Video Driver:  4463  

       

       

       

       

      Add Second SSD

      DP->mDP (MST) | mDP->DP | TB(USB 3.1)->DP->mDP

       

      Memory         16 GB

      SSD:           (2) Samsung 950 PRO M.2 (ACHI)

      Windows:       10240

      Firmware:      0037

      Video Driver:  4463  

       


       

      Swtich to HDMI

      DP->mDP (MST) | mDP->DP | HDMI->HDMI

       

      Memory         16 GB

      SSD:           (2) Samsung 950 PRO M.2 (ACHI)

      Windows:       10240

      Firmware:      0037

      Video Driver:  4463  

       

       

       

       

      Add Memory

      DP->mDP (MST) | mDP->DP | HDMI->HDMI

       

      Memory         32 GB

      SSD:           (2) Samsung 950 PRO M.2 (ACHI)

      Windows:       10240

      Firmware:      0037

      Video Driver:  4463  

       

       

       

       

      Fresh Install

      DP->mDP (MST) | mDP->DP | HDMI->HDMI


      Memory         16 GB

      SSD:           (2) Samsung 950 PRO M.2 (RAID)

      Windows:       10240

      Firmware:      0037

      Video Driver:  4463  

       

       

       

       

      Add Memory

      DP->mDP (MST) | mDP->DP | HDMI->HDMI


      Memory         32 GB

      SSD:           (2) Samsung 950 PRO M.2 (RAID)

      Windows:       10240

      Firmware:      0037

      Video Driver:  4463  

       


       

       

      Switch to 3.1 DP

      DP->mDP (MST) | mDP->DP | TB(USB 3.1)->DP->mDP

       

      Memory         32 GB

      SSD:           (2) Samsung 950 PRO M.2 (RAID)

      Windows:       10240

      Firmware:      0037

      Video Driver:  4463  

       

       

       

       

      Single Display

      TB(USB 3.1)->DP->mDP

       

      Memory         32 GB

      SSD:           (2) Samsung 950 PRO M.2 (RAID)

      Windows:       10240

      Firmware:      0037

      Video Driver:  4463  

       

       

       

       

      Switch to HDMI

      HDMI->HDMI

       

      Memory         32 GB

      SSD:           (2) Samsung 950 PRO M.2 (RAID)

      Windows:       10240

      Firmware:      0037

      Video Driver:  4463  

       

       

       

       

      A number of times while running the NUC6i7KYK today the computer has 'spontaneously reset'.  Every time this has occurred today, the following message is displayed:

       

      2016-07-09 13.35.45.jpg

       

      While leaving half of the memory out of the system, makes it work better. The ability to HAVE 32GB of memory was among the primary reasons I purchased the unit.  The system may be 'usable' from a triple display perspective NOW, but one problem has been traded for another.

        • 1. Re: NUC6i7KYK Triple Display issue
          Intel Corporation
          This message was posted by Intel Corporation on behalf of

          Hi ErnieE,
           
          Please stay only with one thread to avoid confession, we are investigating this issue and you can wait for a solution here:
          https://communities.intel.com/thread/103134
           
          Meanwhile I can suggest you to install the latest Beta driver that it was release, you can download it here:
           https://downloadcenter.intel.com/download/26099/Intel-Beta-Graphics-Driver-for-Windows-10-and-Windows-7-8-1-15-40-
           
           
          Regards,
           
          Ivan
           

          • 2. Re: NUC6i7KYK Triple Display issue
            ErnieE

            Ivan,

             

            I posted a NEW thread because I was being asked for information that had already been posted previously in my original thread. It seems that details were being lost or at least not looked for.

             

            After the above series of tests I tried (and am running) 4474.  I haven't dropped the second memory stick in, but 4474 SEEMS just as stable as earlier versions with only 16GB of memory.  Given the following configuration:

             

            DP->mDP (MST) | mDP->DP | TB(USB 3.1)->DP->mDP

             

            Memory        16 GB

            SSD:          (2) Samsung 950 PRO M.2 (RAID)

            Windows:      14385

            Firmware:     0037

            Video Driver: 4474 

             

            I will try and test with 32GB tonight.

            • 3. Re: NUC6i7KYK Triple Display issue
              Intel Corporation
              This message was posted by Intel Corporation on behalf of

              Hello ErnieE:
               
              Just to let you know, to avoid any kind of confusion, on this thread we are going to focus specifically on the triple display configuration.
               
              Just to make sure, what is the actual problem when you use a triple display configuration?
               
              Let me apologize for this, but I do not see the description of the problem on this thread.
               
              Since the driver version 4474 seems to be working fine with 16GB of memory, it should work just fine with 32GB of RAM.
               
              Please let me know the results of trying with 32GB of RAM.
               
              Any questions, please let me know.
               
              Alberto
               

              • 4. Re: NUC6i7KYK Triple Display issue
                ErnieE

                The whole point of why is started a NEW thread was to avoid this.  See this (#28):

                 

                Re: NUC6i7KYK Dual Display Port display issues - black flickering

                 

                ---------

                Just to make sure, what is the actual problem when you use a triple display configuration?

                Using either the mDP -> Display -> DP -> (MST) mDP  -> Display and a third display with DP results in the ALL ATTACHED monitors connected with DisplayPort to 'repeatedly flash on and off.

                When using a monitor connected with HDMI in a multi-display setup, (Multi-HDMI at the end of DP as well) causes the HDMI video to have very serious compositing issues.  (Shown in the videos on this thread and others referenced.)

                 

                What I can't tell you is if it because of BOTH MEMORY SLOTS being filled or because of > 16GB of memory.  I don't have 8GB memory chips.

                Let me apologize for this, but I do not see the description of the problem on this thread.

                Did you watch any of the videos? Is not a moving picture worth (more than) thousands of words?

                Because the original thread I started (one of the links) had grown beyond (as was at least a couple of firmware/driver updates old) I restarted this thread.

                 

                Since the driver version 4474 seems to be working fine with 16GB of memory, it should work just fine with 32GB of RAM.

                Not. See the videos below.

                 

                Please let me know the results of trying with 32GB of RAM.

                See the videos below.

                ---------

                 

                This is duplicated from Re: NUC6i7KYK Dual Display Port display issues - black flickering

                 

                DP->mDP (MST) | mDP->DP | TB(USB 3.1)->DP->mDP

                 

                Memory        16 GB

                SSD:          (2) Samsung 950 PRO M.2 (RAID)

                Windows:      14385

                Firmware:    0037

                Video Driver: 4474

                 

                 

                 

                DP->mDP (MST) | mDP->DP | TB(USB 3.1)->DP->mDP

                 

                Memory        32 GB

                SSD:          (2) Samsung 950 PRO M.2 (RAID)

                Windows:      14385

                Firmware:     0037

                Video Driver: 4474

                 

                • 5. Re: NUC6i7KYK Triple Display issue
                  Ran99

                  ErnieE - Sorry - not an answer to your problem - more a question since you have the same config with 32Gb RAM... I am intending to do.

                   

                  I am about to buy the Scull NUC and I was wondering if it is possible to connect 3 monitors Dell U2415 (DP 1.2 MST in/out monitors) 1920x1200 :

                   

                  Option 1: DP ->         DP(MST)-In(1)| DP(MST)-Out(1) -> DP(MST)-In(2) | DP(MST)-Out(2) -> DP(MST)-In(3)

                  OR

                  Option 2; TB(USB 3.1)-> DP(MST)-In(1)| DP-Out(1) -> DP(MST)-In(2) | DP-Out(2) -> DP(MST)-In(3)

                   

                  I am wondering if the setup you mentioned above is same as my Option 1 ?

                  "Using either the mDP -> Display -> DP -> (MST) mDP  -> Display and a third display with DP results in the ALL ATTACHED monitors connected with DisplayPort to 'repeatedly flash on and off."

                  • 6. Re: NUC6i7KYK Triple Display issue
                    ErnieE

                    @Ran99

                     

                    I have never personally used display port monitors at that 'low' a resolution that also supported MST (Multi Stream Transport).  However if the driver is implemented correctly, DP 1.2 has the bandwidth to support 3 monitors in that way. However, I have seen (at work) even ATI/AMD video cards refuse to support more than dual displays off of a single port with an MST hub.  No idea if the problem was the Hub, Video Card, or drivers in that case.

                     

                    Based on what I have personally experienced with the NUC I have a feeling that you might be disappointed.  Setting Up Multiple Displays

                     

                    Capture.PNG

                     

                    It looks like they only support 3 at 1080.

                    • 7. Re: NUC6i7KYK Triple Display issue
                      Intel Corporation
                      This message was posted by Intel Corporation on behalf of

                      Hello ErnieE:
                       
                      Thank you very much for that information.
                       
                      Let me apologize for any inconvenience, since there are a lot of posts on this thread and on the other threads and just wanted to clarify the information.
                       
                      I am pretty sure you already checked on that, but it is very important that the display cable that goes from the NUC to the first monitor to be a high quality 1.2 DP cable, the others do not need to be high quality, but the first one does, that is just to let you know, just in case.
                        
                      And yes, if you need to use a triple display through the display port, then the max resolution will be 1920x1080@60Hz.
                       
                      There are other options to use a triple display configuration, to be able to use a higher resolution, as you can see on page 19 on the following link, not sure if you try those:
                       
                      http://www.intel.com/content/dam/support/us/en/documents/boardsandkits/NUC6i7KYK_TechProdSpec03.pdf
                      In regard to the triple display not working with 32GB of RAM, , if you have the option to use 2 sticks of 8GB, will be interesting to see how it behaves, but the thing is that it should work the same with 8GB 16GB or 32GB of RAM.
                       
                      Based on the notes that belong to this thread: https://communities.intel.com/thread/103134
                       
                      The case is under investigation, so we will need to wait for the results of that research, in order to find out if there is a possible way to fix this problem.
                       
                      Any questions, please let me know.
                       
                      Alberto
                       

                      • 8. Re: NUC6i7KYK Triple Display issue
                        ErnieE

                        This information is in previous posts.

                         

                        All monitors are configured to support DP 1.2. (Dell allows this to be turned off.) I ~have~ tried various configurations (turning off DP 1.2 support etc), but still see similar symptoms (with 32GB). The cables I have used include the DP 1.2 cables shipped with the displays and other vendors cables as well.  (I have mDP -> mDP, mDP-> DP, mDP -> HDMI, DP -> DP, all 'certified' as DP 1.2.)  Given that my setup will only support two displays off of any DP 1.2 connection, I have not tried a longer chain.

                         

                        I have also tried a triple monitor setup with HDMI -> U3014, mDP -> U3014, 3.1C -> DP (adapter) -> U3014.  With this configuration, given enough time, the DP monitors will eventually reset as shown in previous videos and the HDMI display will exhibit schizophrenic compositing during heavy graphics use.  ('Aero fade' of a background is an easy way to see this.)

                         

                        The only SEMI-STABLE configuration (on a NUC6i7KYK) is with a single 16GB memory stick for me.

                         

                        Again ~I~ do not have access to 8GB DDR4 memory.  I ~could~ pull the DDR3 from my NUC5i7RYH, but I am not certain if that is supported.  (Haven't looked, and I am assuming it isn't.)

                         

                        So, based on the number of tests I have performed my situation seems to be related to having either 1) Both memory slots populated or 2) Having > 16GB of memory.  I have STUCK with the MST chain on one side because I have tried other configurations and it DOES NOT HELP. 

                         

                        One MORE time: The EXACT SAME CABLES (1 HDMI to HDMI, 1 mDP out to DP in, and 1 MST out DP to mDP) work perfectly on a NUC5i7RYH.  I can pull those EXACT CABLES and plug them into a NUC6i7KYK with 32GB of memory and see poor behavior.  If I pull the second memory stick on the NUC6i7KYK the KYK becomes semi-usable (see the part about spontaneous reboots and unsuccessful POST attempts above). Another post (from another person) describes behavior that I too have seen. The spontaneous reboots SEEM to occur AFTER a cold boot, and/or an OS 'upgrade'.  Once it has occurred, the unit SEEMS stable for long periods of time as long as the KYK stays powered on. I generally disable hibernation, but will allow the displays to be turned off despite the additional fact that the KYK or RYH will never recover from a display that has been turned off without power cycling the displays.  (This happens pretty much every time I have been away from the computer for more than about 30 minutes.)

                         

                        I am not willing to buy 8GB DDR4 ram to test my system FOR INTEL. (I have zero need for the 'laptop sized' 8GB DDR4 memory sticks.)  If Intel would like to send some for testing, I would (semi-grudgingly) test that for you (to be nice), even IF I still consider asking customers to trouble shoot (what SEEM to be) Intel issues a poor practice.

                        • 9. Re: NUC6i7KYK Triple Display issue
                          Ran99

                          Thank you ErnieE and Intel Rep.

                           

                          @EarnieE

                          My monitor’s resolution of @1920x1200 is quite adequate to what I do  Also NVIDIA Quadro line with a basic model like the Leadtek NVIDIA Quadro K620 2GB card http://www.leadtek.com/eng/product/2/706/intro.aspx can drive 4 monitors @ 1920x1200.

                           

                          @Intel Rep & EarnieE

                          In regards to the DP and Intel 580 Graphics - what it does tell me is that the DP implementation is not exactly 1.2.  The table below shows the different DP versions bandwidth. So DP 1.2 should have 17.28GB/s bandwidth.

                           

                          Multi-Stream

                          Adaptive

                          Net

                          Display Port

                          Transport (MST)

                          Sync

                          Bandwidth

                          Gross Bandwidth

                          1.0 - 1.1

                          N

                          N

                          8.64 GB/s

                          10.80 GB/s

                          1.2

                          Y

                               N 

                          17.28 GB/s

                          21.60 GB/s

                          1.2a

                          Y

                              Y17.28 GB/s21.60 GB/s

                          1.3 and 1.4

                          Y

                              Y

                          25.92 GB/s32.40 GB/s

                           

                          As a result:

                          When using DisplayPort 1.2 multi-streaming, multiple displays are combined on the same DisplayPort link. Each display can have the full pixel clock available in the GPU, but all heads share the bandwidth of the link. For example:

                           

                          4 heads of 1920 × 1200, 24 bpp at 60 Hz

                          4 × 154.128 MHz Pixel Clock × 24 bpp = 14.8 Gbps – which works

                           

                          3 heads of 1920 × 1200, 30 bpp at 60 Hz

                          3 × 154.128 MHz Pixel Clock × 30 bpp = 13.4 Gbps – which works

                           

                          4 heads of 1920 × 1200, 30 bpp at 60 Hz

                          4 × 154.128 MHz Pixel Clock × 30 bpp = 18.5 Gbps – which does not work (max Bandwidth of DP 1.2 is 17.2 Gbps!)

                           

                          The Pixel Clock of 1920x1080 is about 130Mhz and therefore:

                           

                          3 heads of 1920 × 1080, 30 bpp at 60 Hz

                          3 × 130 MHz Pixel Clock × 30 bpp = 11.7 Gbps

                           

                          4 heads of 1920 × 1080, 30 bpp at 60 Hz

                          4 × 130 MHz Pixel Clock × 30 bpp = 15.6 Gbps

                           

                          So DP 1.2 should have no problem to drive 3 monitors @1920x1200 or even 4 monitors @1920x1080. When Intel says that the maximum resolution on the DP 1.2 is only 3 x 1920x1080 this means that the bandwidth implemented in the NUC is lower than 13.4GB/s.

                           

                          In addition the Thunderbolt 3 has even better bandwidth of 40GB/s.

                           

                          So my questions are:

                          1. What is the maximum bandwidth of the NUC?
                          2. Why I cannot use the TB3 to DP converter and then connect 3 DP MST 1920x1200 monitors?
                          • 10. Re: NUC6i7KYK Triple Display issue
                            ErnieE

                            Ran99

                             

                            Like I said, I suspected that you would be unhappy with the answer. (Sorry.)  All things considered given that the NUC5i7RYH handles 3 2560x1600 displays well is fairly impressive.  (The unit doesn't like 2160 @ 60fps with that setup as it maxes out the CPU.)  The NUC6i7KYK handles 2160 @ 60fps (down sampling to fit 2560x1600) just barely. That too is fairly impressive given the amount of data that is being moved.

                             

                            One of the reasons I purchased the NUC was to see if it could handle 3456x2160@60fps HDMI reasonably well.  (HDMI 2.0 has some potential here.)  Still waiting on a decent display for those tests, but it is looking more and more like I am likely to abandon the Intel iGPU idea all together. I was told 'point blank' (on this forum) that Intel doesn't support Linux on the NUC. I haven't done less than dual monitors for close to twenty years. Given a (non-trivial) amount of my time is spent in Linux and (last time I even tried) Intel support of Linux was 'lacking',

                             

                            Based on my experience I can't recommend anyone purchasing a NUC6i7KYK if you want more than a single display.  I can think of a couple of reasons why the drivers/firmware is unstable (for me) with 32GB of memory. Sometimes bugs can be really stupid. (26+ years as a professional developer has me creating my fair share) This (I hope) is really just a software glitch and Intel can fix it. However, (for me at least) this is the second time around that a NUC has been released that didn't live up to the advertisements without (many) months of waiting for driver and firmware fixes.

                             

                            Imagine how disappointing it was to finally get my hands on the KYK after reading about it (Intel’s high-end quad-core NUC ships in May for $650 | Ars Technica ) and waiting, and waiting. It really seemed like FOREVER.  Then getting home the day it arrived and installing the (required) firmware update, and boot support for RSS RAID, Downloading and installing the REQUIRED NIC support, only to find that it was completely unusable (for the way I NEED to use it).

                             

                            Disappointed just doesn't even come close to describing how I feel. (Worst is that, the older unit worked 'just fine'.)  Discovering that limiting the memory allows the unit to be semi-usable has taken away the 'sting', but not the memory of the 'betrayal' felt.


                            I'd offer to sell you mine, but I really can't in good conscience.

                            • 11. Re: NUC6i7KYK Triple Display issue
                              Intel Corporation
                              This message was posted by Intel Corporation on behalf of

                              Hello:
                               
                              Thank you very much to all the peers participating on this thread.
                               
                              We appreciate the fact that you are posting all those comments in here, that information is very valuable for us.
                               
                              The case is still under investigation
                               
                              Please refer to: https://communities.intel.com/thread/103134

                              Thanks

                              Alberto
                               

                              • 12. Re: NUC6i7KYK Triple Display issue
                                Ran99

                                @ErnieE

                                I can understand your frustration perfectly. I have been many times in your situation and it looks to me that now every company is rushing to release new product as fast as possible assuming they will loose their customer to other companies, and let the users test their product. The truth is that this behavior actually at the end causing exactly what those companies fear the most - loss of their customers!

                                 

                                I remember in the 80's when IBM was the biggest computer company and was always releasing their products last - way after everybody released theirs like Burroughs for example. BUT - IBM products worked 100% from day one! (Apple does this mostly in today world although lately they are also starting to release unfinished products too). So the end people just give up on those companies. At the end people having enough and when they leave such company they will NEVER look back.

                                 

                                For example - in order to upgrade Samsung OS on any Android phone (2 years ago - I dont know about now) - one has to be a computer wiz, while the iPhone does it with 3-4 clicks! since iPhone 3.

                                Dell Thunderbolt Dock TB15  - after they release it in January nobody could work-it out and at the end they withdrew it from sales last month. Many customers returned it and bought alternative products from other companies. I am wondering how many of those customers are going to rush and buy the next TB Dell dock when it will be released - even that this time I presume it will be well tested before the release?

                                 

                                So the moral is - releasing junk products and relying on customer to test it is leading to oblivion!

                                • 13. Re: NUC6i7KYK Triple Display issue
                                  Intel Corporation
                                  This message was posted by Intel Corporation on behalf of

                                  Hello Ran99:
                                   
                                  We appreciate and respect the opinion of any of the peers on this thread, Intel® tests the products before they get released, but sometimes there are unexpected scenarios that might depend on the system arrangements the customer is trying to achieve, and sometimes there are limitations on the product that prevent certain type of configurations.
                                   
                                  But we are here to try our best to fix any possible problem the product might have for the user to be able to use it properly.
                                   
                                  To ErnieE, case is still under investigation, for update on this matter please refer to https://communities.intel.com/thread/103134.
                                   
                                  Any questions, please let me know.
                                   
                                  Alberto