1 2 Previous Next 26 Replies Latest reply on Feb 26, 2010 1:33 PM by TitanFan

    IDE-AHCI-RAID... so far

    Pekish79

      When I start my bios i can choose how to set up my SSD: AHCI,IDE,RAID

       

      AHCI and IDE are similar (AHCI newer and more advanced, IDE more standard and compatible) AHCI, I guess, support the automatic TRIM in window7 while IDE don't but i am not sure about this...

       

      RAID has two possibilities:

      a)     single SSD

      Doesn’t support automatic TRIM but support the TOOLBOX (correct me if wrong)

      b)    With RAID-0 SSD (2xSSD disk)

      Doesn’t support anything but go faster ^_^ (there is any way to trim or clean the empty space with this configuration?)

       

      This said if you have just one SSD which one would you advice?

       

      AHCI?

      IDE?

      RAID-mono disk?

        • 1. Re: IDE-AHCI-RAID... so far
          Fernando

          You should choose the "AHCI" Mode.

          Big advantages:

          1. You will get the automatic Trim command.

          2. You will get a better performance than by choosing the "IDE" Mode.

          3. Only the AHCI Mode supports the "hot plugging" feature (plug-in and plug-out of mass storage devices while running the OS).

           

          If you choose the IDE Mode, you will get automatic Trim support too, but you will miss the AHCI features (better performance and "hot plugging").

           

          Disadvantage of RAID Mode:

          No Trim support and not even the option to run the Optimizer of the Intel SSD Toolbox, because it doesn't work with an SSD, which is within a RAID (single or as an array).

           

          Regards

          Fernando

          • 2. Re: IDE-AHCI-RAID... so far
            Pekish79

            Thanks that was very clear...

             

            now this... I saw you advertise to use RST driver.

             

            I was just wondering the difference between MSM - JMicron - RST - Marvell

             

            From my understanding MSM is the one intel advice to use since they don't have a certified RST ready yet but the future seem to be the RST one.

             

            What is JMicron?and Marvell? and why to use it?

             

            Last but not least where do i see if i am using a MSM or RST driver? I noticed that Win7 just updated my MSM to the latest version automatically do i have to uninstall it when i install the RST one?

            • 3. Re: IDE-AHCI-RAID... so far
              Fernando

              1. Intel has stopped the development of the Intel(R) Matrix Storage Manager" (MSM), the successor is the "Intel(R) Rapid Storage Technology" (RST). So the new RST drivers will be the better choice, if you want to use any Intel AHCI driver.

              2. JMicron and Marvell have nothing to do with MSM or RST. Both are chipset producers like Intel.

              3. If your mainboard has Intel and JMicron or Marvell SATA ports, you should connect the Intel SSD to an Intel and not to any other SATA port. Otherwise it would be a good idea to connect your optical drive (DVD Burner) to a JMicron or Marvell SATA port, if it is a SATA connected device.

              4. If you are using any Intel SATA AHCI driver (either MSM or RST), you will not have the automatic Trim support, but you can clean your SSD with the Optimizer, which is part of Intel's SSD Toolbox.

              • 4. Re: IDE-AHCI-RAID... so far
                Pekish79

                Okey it's almost everything clear now

                 

                I though the new version of MSM did pass TRIM.... if not i have to use MS AHCI drivers...

                • 5. Re: IDE-AHCI-RAID... so far
                  Fernando

                  Pekish79 schrieb:

                   

                  I though the new version of MSM did pass TRIM.... if not i have to use MS AHCI drivers...

                  Alternatively you may use the new Intel RST driver v9.5.6.1001, which may have a better support of your Intel SATA AHCI Controllers. As long as the new RST drivers do not pass the Trim command, you can easily clean your SSD by the Optimizer of Intel's SSD Toolbox.

                  • 6. Re: IDE-AHCI-RAID... so far
                    davem1979

                    I just did a clean install from DVD of Windows 7 64bit to my new pc.  I have 4 hard drives installed.

                    1 Intel X25M 160gb SSD --> OS
                    2 Samsung F3 500 ---> RAID 0 volume
                    1 Samsung F3 1TB ---> Storage

                    I set my motherboard Gigabyte EX58-UD5 to RAID mode, then I created the RAID 0 of the two Samsung 500Gb disks, then I installed Windows 7 on the Intel X25M (non raid disk).

                    After I got into windows, I ran the Intel Chipset Software Installation Utility, and then I ran the current Intel Matrix Storage Manager. Everything works, no problems, opening Intel Matrix Storage Manager shows the RAID 0 disks and the two non-raid disks and the storage controller is using the latest Intel Matrix Storage Manager driver.

                    In the device manager of Windows, it tells me under "Disk Drives" that my drives are using the Microsoft Driver disk.sys. But, under "Storage Controllers", the controller shows that the computer is using the Intel ICH10r Sata RAID controller.

                    I have three questions:

                    1. Is my Intel X25M using the Intel Matrix Storage Driver, and should I not worry that in Device Manager under "Disk Drives" it says it's using the Microsoft driver?

                    2. I still need to format the RAID 0 Samsungs, and the other 1tb Samsung. Using Disk Management, do I just create a simple volume for both of them? As well, for the RAID 0 Samsungs, I set the stripe size in the BIOS at 128K the default, but when I create the NTFS volume, it asks me for the size I think of the clusters, do I just use default?

                    3.  Should I use MBR (master boot record) type of partition for those drives?

                    Many Thanks,
                    David

                     

                    PS. If it helps, I loaded the Intel SSD Optimizer Toolkit and it detected my SSD as being available to be trimmed, my single Samsung drive, and it also showed my RAID 0 Samsungs greyed out as not being able to be optimized because they are part of a RAID.

                    • 7. Re: IDE-AHCI-RAID... so far
                      Fernando

                      davem1979 schrieb:

                       

                      1. Is my Intel X25M using the Intel Matrix Storage Driver, and should I not worry that in Device Manager under "Disk Drives" it says it's using the Microsoft driver?

                      2. I still need to format the RAID 0 Samsungs, and the other 1tb Samsung. Using Disk Management, do I just create a simple volume for both of them? As well, for the RAID 0 Samsungs, I set the stripe size in the BIOS at 128K the default, but when I create the NTFS volume, it asks me for the size I think of the clusters, do I just use default?

                      3.  Should I use MBR (master boot record) type of partition for those drives?

                      Here are my answers:

                      1. All your storage drives (SSD, RAID0 and single hdd), which are connected to the Intel SATA ports of your mainboard, are always using the same SATA driver, in your case the Intel MSM driver named IASTOR.SYS. The drivers, which are shown within the "Disk Drives" section of the Device Manager, are not the drivers, which are used by the SATA Controllers.

                      Conclusion: Everything is fine, there is nothing to worry about.

                      2. It is your decision, if you want more than 1 partition on each drive. If I were you, I would divide the RAID and the 1TB drive into 2-3 Partitions. When you are creating an NTFS volume and you are asked for the size, it means the size of the desired partition and not the size of the clusters, which is 4KB for the NTFS file system..

                      3. As far as I understand, the active partition with the MBR/bootloader is on your SSD. So you should just create non-MBR partitions (primary or enhanced with logical drives) on your RAID0 and 1 TB hdd.

                      • 8. Re: IDE-AHCI-RAID... so far
                        davem1979

                        Thanks again Fernando! You've been a great help in these forums!

                         

                        I'm glad to know that the drives are installed properly.   As well, I will take a look again at the disk managment today with your recommendations in mind.

                         

                        Best,

                        David

                        • 9. Re: IDE-AHCI-RAID... so far
                          davem1979

                          Just wanted to update on my disk managment question:  I used Windows 7 disk management to partition the RAID 0 and the single 1tb drive.  I used MBR not GPT and just made a simple volume on both of them. GPT I think is for when you want to partition a disk into more than 4 partitions.  Anyway, I just used all the default values, and all is well.

                          • 10. Re: IDE-AHCI-RAID... so far
                            TitanFan

                            Fernando wrote:

                             

                            davem1979 schrieb:

                             

                            1. Is my Intel X25M using the Intel Matrix Storage Driver, and should I not worry that in Device Manager under "Disk Drives" it says it's using the Microsoft driver?

                            2. I still need to format the RAID 0 Samsungs, and the other 1tb Samsung. Using Disk Management, do I just create a simple volume for both of them? As well, for the RAID 0 Samsungs, I set the stripe size in the BIOS at 128K the default, but when I create the NTFS volume, it asks me for the size I think of the clusters, do I just use default?

                            3.  Should I use MBR (master boot record) type of partition for those drives?

                            Here are my answers:

                            1. All your storage drives (SSD, RAID0 and single hdd), which are connected to the Intel SATA ports of your mainboard, are always using the same SATA driver, in your case the Intel MSM driver named IASTOR.SYS. The drivers, which are shown within the "Disk Drives" section of the Device Manager, are not the drivers, which are used by the SATA Controllers.

                            Conclusion: Everything is fine, there is nothing to worry about.

                            David,

                             

                            Ferando is correct that all of your SATA devices connected to the Intel Storage Controller are using the Intel MSM driver.  Since you have set the controller to RAID mode, that means ALL devices connected to the controller are in RAID mode, and your SSD will not receive TRIM commands since Intel's MSM driver does not support TRIM when in RAID mode.  Please correct me if I'm wrong, Ferando.  This is the exact reason I'm not using a SSD right now, as my Intel Storage Controller is also in RAID mode and will not send TRIM commands to the devices connected to it.

                            • 11. Re: IDE-AHCI-RAID... so far
                              davem1979

                              When RAID mode is set in the BIOS, Windows 7 cannot pass the trim command to a single SSD on the Intel ICH10r or similar.  This is why Intel has the "SSD Toolbox".  With the SSD Toolbox, you can set up the single SSD on a schedule to be trimmed by the SSD Toolbox, or trim it manually, even when the BIOS on the motherboard is set to RAID mode.

                               

                              The Intel SSD toolbox will not however trim 2 or more SSD's that are setup in a RAID configuration such as RAID 0, RAID 1 etc...

                               

                              At this point in time, there is no reason to avoid SSD's, because we have all the tools necessary now to keep them optimized at peak performance.  The only thing we don't have now is the trim command for 2 or more SSD's in a RAID configuration.

                               

                              Best,

                              David

                              • 12. Re: IDE-AHCI-RAID... so far
                                Fernando

                                davem1979 schrieb:

                                 

                                The Intel SSD toolbox will not however trim 2 or more SSD's that are setup in a RAID configuration such as RAID 0, RAID 1 etc...

                                 

                                At this point in time, there is no reason to avoid SSD's, because we have all the tools necessary now to keep them optimized at peak performance.  The only thing we don't have now is the trim command for 2 or more SSD's in a RAID configuration.

                                Currently the Trim command will not be passed, if your SSD is connected to any SATA Controller running in RAID Mode.

                                The cleaning of an SSD by using the Optimizer of Intel's SSD Toolbox has the same result but doesn't use the Trim command.

                                Furthermore the ability to use the Optimizer of Intel's SSD Toolbox doesn't depend on the number of SSD's running in RAID Mode, but only on the question, if they are part of a created RAID.

                                You can create a RAID containing just 1 SSD, but you won't be able to run the Optimizer of Intel's SSD Toolbox with this SSD.

                                • 13. Re: IDE-AHCI-RAID... so far
                                  ericvas

                                  Am I correct in assuming that if I simply buy a separate PCI SATAII controller and plug my SSD into it while the Intel RAID controller on the motherboard supports, say, a RAID 0 array, I can get the best of both worlds, RAID and a TRIM'ed boot SSD?

                                   

                                  - Eric

                                  • 14. Re: IDE-AHCI-RAID... so far
                                    TitanFan

                                    Possibly, but if you want to boot from your SSD, you need to make sure that's possible from the PCI Card.  I was intersted in the ASUS U3S6 PCI card to get SATA 6.0 GBps performance for a boot SSD (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813995004&cm_re=u3s6-_-13-995-004-_-Product), but Asus confirmed that drives connected to that card are data only and will not boot.  Also, the Intel on-boad controller will perform better than a PCI SATA interface due primarly to Intel's controller cache and on-board I/O.

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