14 Replies Latest reply on May 20, 2016 10:36 AM by Intel Corporation

    NUCD54250WYK No display on 4K television via HDMI

    freddyzdead

      I bought a 40" 4k TV to use as a monitor in the bedroom with my new D54250WYK.  The trouble is, when Windows starts, the screen goes blue and says "No Signal".  I am using Windows 8.1 and HDMI connection.  I am using a 2.0 cable.  When I boot in safe mode, I get an ugly desktop, but I can then run the cru.exe checker, which queries the  monitor's EDID.  It says it suppports 3840x2160. I used the Intel Update Utility to update the graphics driver.  Made no difference.  Plugging the NUC into a smaller television that does 1080p works just fine.  What could be wrong?  I'm sure the D54250WYK can do 4k, so I'm stumped.

        • 1. Re: NUCD54250WYK No display on 4K television via HDMI
          Intel Corporation
          This message was posted by Intel Corporation on behalf of

          Hi Freddyzdead,

          To better assist you, could you please fill out the information asked in this site and attach the results?
          https://communities.intel.com/thread/77761

          Regards,
          Hellen.

          • 2. Re: NUCD54250WYK No display on 4K television via HDMI
            freddyzdead

            Thank you, Hellen; I have read your request, and i will do my best to provide what you are asking for, although much of it requires gathering data from the running system, and the nature of the fault is that the system never does run, that is the whole problem.

             

            So:

             

            Description     The display is a Bauhn (Aldi) television model ATVU40-0416. It is capable of displaying maximum 3840x2160@30Hz via HDMI.

                                The problem is that the monitor displays the POST of the  NUCD54250WYK and the Windows startup, but when Windows switches to GUI mode, the display turns blue and begins reporting "No Signal".  When the  NUCD54250WYK is plugged into another monitor that supports maximum 1920x1080@60Hz ,it works well..  This problem occurs 100% of the time.  I do not have another 4k source to plug into the display to confirm that it works at this resolution.  But the manufacturer's support assures me that it does.

             

            Hardware:     As Noted above,  NUCD54250WYK , RAM 8GB DDR3L (Kingston brand), Display as noted above, Cable is unbranded HDMI 2.0.  There is a passive adapter mini-HDMI to HDMI.

             

            Software:     Windows 8.1 Professional x86, Display driver version 10.18.14.4332.

             

            I cannot run the DXDiag or DispDiag utilities due to the nature of the problem: 

             

            The information that is missing because of this I don't believe is vital, as I am not asking the hardware to do anything it shouldn't be able to, and what I have here is just the bare-bones   NUCD54250WYK with 8G Ram, a Fujitsu 256GB SATA SSD, an HDMI cable and a display.  The NUC should query the display's EDID data, ascertain that it supports  3840x2160@30Hz, and go ahead and output it.  For some reason it is not, even though according to your specifications, it should.  The exact same setup, but with a monitor that supports maximum  1920x1080@60Hz works flawlessly, which should at least tell us that the hardware is working well.

             

            What would be nice is if you could specify a minimum of hardware/software configuration that will allow the box to output 3840x2160@30Hz.  The forums are abuzz with people complaining that they can't get  3840x2160@60Hz, but I don't see anywhere that you say they should be able to do this.  They are not reading the specifications.  The 4k television reports its maximum pixel clock rate is 297MHz at 30Hz refresh.  So, at 60Hz it would be almost 600MHz.  People don't seem to realize that is a big ask.  There are even idiots talking excitedly about 8k, which must be just around the corner.  Presumably, that would require clocking at 1.2GHz.  There's no cable that can do that; you'd need a waveguide.  Just to confirm, am I correct in assuming the i5 display hardware can indeed output 300MHz?

            • 3. Re: NUCD54250WYK No display on 4K television via HDMI
              Intel Corporation
              This message was posted by Intel Corporation on behalf of

              Hi Freddyzdead,

               

              I found this in the NUC’s TP, Single Display port support 4K; I suggest you connect the NUC to the TV using Display Port, please let me know the outcome.

              Display.PNG

              Here is the NUCD54250 Technical Product Specification, page 23, Multiple Display Port and HDMI Configurations.
              http://www.intel.com/content/dam/support/us/en/documents/boardsandkits/D54250WYB_D34010WYB_TechProdSpec06.pdf

               

              Regards,
              Hellen.

              • 4. Re: NUCD54250WYK No display on 4K television via HDMI
                freddyzdead

                Hi Helen

                I am dumbfounded.  I am sure I have read that this model supports 3840x2160@30Hz through the HDMI.  This display has no DP interface; few if any Televisions do.  Since you have repeatedly deprecated the use of DP-HDMI Adapters, how do I get a signal into this TV?

                 

                Can you tell me why, in this scenario, since the NUC cannot provide what the television is asking for, the NUC doesn't fall back to the next lowest resolution, instead of just doing nothing?  The whole idea is that the system is plug-and-play; the graphics subsystem queries the display's EDID for its native/maximum resolution and sets itself accordingly.  There is no user intervention required or allowed.  There is no appropriate outcome from this that results in no picture at all.  This suggests that the graphics driver is failing to do its job.  Also, there is no indication of why the Display Port can support this resolution, but the HDMI cannot.  They are connected to the same graphics engine.  Is it because the HDMI transceiver chip is obsolete?

                 

                Regards,

                Richard

                • 5. Re: NUCD54250WYK No display on 4K television via HDMI
                  Intel Corporation
                  This message was posted by Intel Corporation on behalf of

                  Hi Freddyzdead,

                  Could you please follow the steps in the link below and send me the Graphics Report to better assist you.
                  http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/support/graphics-drivers/000005848.html

                  Regards,
                  Hellen.
                   

                  • 6. Re: NUCD54250WYK No display on 4K television via HDMI
                    freddyzdead

                    Hi Hellen

                    The outcome so far is I have ordered an adapter mDP - HDMI, which may arrive tomorrow.  My understanding of these things is that they require the DisplayPort to switch from DP timings to HDMI timings.  This would make more sense than decoding/re-encoding the signals.  I have such an adapter, but it only claims to support DP 1.1 and HDMI 1.3.  It works at 1080p@60Hz on another display, but there are some sparkly artifacts.  This is not surprising, but I still wonder if this is really actively converting the DP to HDMI.  Anyway, I expect the sparkly artifacts are because it is running at the high edge of its capability.  1080p at 30 and 50Hz is ok. None of this is happening with the 4k display; it still goes blank as before.

                    • 7. Re: NUCD54250WYK No display on 4K television via HDMI
                      freddyzdead

                      Hi Hellen

                       

                      Sorry, I'd already posted that reply before I'd seen yours.

                       

                      The only way I can generate that report is to connect the sytem to a different display, which might be misleading.  It would appear that the driver parameters are saved on a per-display basis, and I can never get to a desktop when this 4k display is connected.  This is outside my experience; I always get some sort of desktop, even if it isn't at the resolution I was expecting.  The only way I can get any display at all is to boot into safe mode.  Which isn't very useful.  If there were some way to force the driver to output a fixed resolution, say 1920x1080@50Hz. no matter what display was connected, then at least I'd be in a position to investigate.  This makes no sense to me; The NUC works fine when I connect it to any other display I've got, the 4k display works fine when I connect it to any other hardware I've got.  It's only when you put the two of them together that we get this standoff.

                      • 8. Re: NUCD54250WYK No display on 4K television via HDMI
                        Intel Corporation
                        This message was posted by Intel Corporation on behalf of

                        Hi Freddyzdead,

                         

                        To answer your question on May 9 about the output 300MHz, the answer is yes you are correct.
                        I did a lab with this configuration, in order to replicate your issue, and I get 4k, Windows starts with no issue at 4k.

                         

                        HP-Z27s
                        Intel® NUC Kit D54250WY
                        HDMI-mini HDMI CableMaster* High Speed with Ethernet
                        HDMI-mini HDMI RadioShark* High Speed with Ethernet
                        The latest Graphics Driver: https://downloadcenter.intel.com/download/25641/Graphics-Intel-HD-Graphics-Driver-for-Windows-7-8-1-for-D34010WY-D54250WY?product=76977

                         

                        I would like you to do these steps.

                         

                        Enter on save mode and please let me know Maximum and minimum resolution detected; then, uninstall the Intel® Graphics and do the same with the max and min resolution detected.

                         

                        By the way could you please clarify to me the last part of your comment; “The NUC works fine when I connect it to any other display I've got, the 4k display works fine when I connect it to any other hardware I've got.  It's only when you put the two of them together that we get this standoff.”
                        Is the other Display a Monitor or TV?
                        Is it 4k?

                         

                        Regards,
                        Hellen.

                        • 9. Re: NUCD54250WYK No display on 4K television via HDMI
                          freddyzdead

                          Hi Hellen

                          Ok, the max/min resolution in both cases was 1360x768/1024x768.  After uninstalling the video driver I  was able to boot Windows in normal mode at the same resolution.  As soon as I reinstalled the driver, the original problem returned.

                           

                          What I meant was, the NUC seems to work alright with any other display I connect it to, and the television seems to work ok with any of the laptops I've got.  There is only a problem when I connect the NUC to this 4k display.

                           

                          Any attempt to switch to any resolution above 1360x768 just blanks the display.

                           

                          I have a question that arose while trying to get anything onto this display at 4k.  I have an Acer 5755G I7 laptop.  It has Intel 3000 graphics and also a Nvidia Geforce GT540M.  These two seem to be connected together, but I have no idea in what way.  But the Intel driver allowed me to create a custom resolution at 3840x2160@25Hz.  When I tried to use 30Hz it told me it exceeded available bandwidth, but at 25Hz it was accepted.  But this newly-created resolution is not available to use.  It is very hard for me to tell what is actually going on here.  I know this is outside the scope of the original problem, but I just thought you could give me your opinion as to whether this hardware should be able to do 4k at any refresh rate.

                           

                          I am attaching the output from CRU.exe, a handy tool that unfortunately only works on nVidia and ATI chipsets.  It is running on the aforementioned 5755G laptop.  I hope this is helpful.

                           

                          Thank you so much for your attention.  I appreciate it.

                           

                          Richard

                          CRU output.JPG

                          • 10. Re: NUCD54250WYK No display on 4K television via HDMI
                            Intel Corporation
                            This message was posted by Intel Corporation on behalf of

                            Hi Freddyzdead,

                            Please let me investigate more about this issue as soon as I get an answered I will let you now.

                            Regards,
                            Hellen.
                             

                            • 11. Re: NUCD54250WYK No display on 4K television via HDMI
                              freddyzdead

                              Hi Hellen

                               

                              I'm not sure why, but after several reboots, I now have the 5755G laptop displaying at 3840x2160@25Hz.  It suddenly became available, and is shown as the recommended resolution, so I chose it and, to my surprise it came up. I was under the impression that Intel 3000 graphics couldn't do this, but I don't know the extent of involvement of the nVidia subsystem.  But the nVidia tray icon says there is no nVidia GPU activity.  Disabling either of the graphics subsystems seems to make the system unstable, so I am really perplexed as to what I've really got here.

                               

                              The situation with the NUC is still the same.  But if I'd known I was going to get this far with the laptop, I probably wouldn't have bought the NUC.

                               

                              Anyway, I am still looking forward to getting to the bottom of the problem.

                               

                              Thanks.

                              Richard

                              • 12. Re: NUCD54250WYK No display on 4K television via HDMI
                                Intel Corporation
                                This message was posted by Intel Corporation on behalf of

                                Hi Freddyzdead,
                                 
                                Are you connecting the laptop in the same HDMI port, where you connected the NUC, even using the same HDMI cable?
                                 
                                Because, the outcome you are getting now is indeed quite interesting since we were checking the manual of you TV available at: http://www.bauhn.com.au/_literature_152635/ATVU40-0416_-_Instruction_Manual ; In page 34 there is a chart where it shows that the Native refresh rate is at 60Hz and also the resolution is of 3840x2160.
                                 
                                The NUC 54250 is capable of that resolution but only at 30Hz, when the EDID of the Intel® driver asks for the native resolution that native resolution is way beyond the NUC capabilities, this is why it doesn’t go to another resolution supported.
                                 
                                 We’ll like to know the test of switching to mini-DP to HDMI converter instead? As per the NUCs TPS, via DP it can do 3840x2160@30hz.
                                 
                                In your experiment with the laptop the graphics controller that is working is the nVidia, since the HD 3000 in the Sandy Bridge is not capable of that resolution.
                                 
                                Regards,
                                Hellen.
                                 

                                • 13. Re: NUCD54250WYK No display on 4K television via HDMI
                                  freddyzdead

                                  Hi Hellen

                                   

                                  Yes, it is the same port, same cable.

                                   

                                  I see what you mean; the native refresh rate of the panel is indeed 60Hz.  But the display reports 30Hz.  This limitation must be coming from the display's chipset, I think.

                                   

                                  The 4k DisplayPort to HDMI adapter I ordered on Ebay arrived yesterday afternoon.  I only got the chance to try it just now.  Without changing anything else, the NUC booted up straight into 3840x2160@30Hz.  The picture is bright and crisp, no artifact of any kind.  Playing a 1080p blueray rip seems to give a better result than playing the same clip on a native 1080p display.  Playing a 4k clip of special UV footage of the sun, produced by NASA, is nothing less than breathtaking.

                                   

                                  Can you enlighten me as to how this DP-HDMI adapter works?  Is it active or passive?  If it's active, there's not much room for electronics inside.  If it's passive, then DP and HDMI must be more similar than I thought, or else there must be co-operation from the NUC.  I don't know that much about the respective signaling and timings of the two standards, although if they are both based on DVI, then I guess it starts to make sense.

                                   

                                  The difference between 25Hz and 30Hz is quite apparent; but I can certainly see why everyone is clamouring for 4k@60Hz.  Video content is rather hard to watch, especially if it has been converted fom NTSC to PAL.  The pull-down artifacts make it pretty much unwatchable at 25Hz, somewhat less so at 30.

                                   

                                  When motion is not a consideration, though, it should be quite handy to be able to edit 3 or more documents simultaneously.  This is more desktop real estate than I've ever seen before.

                                   

                                  Lastly, I have to admit I'm flummoxed by the behaviour of the laptop, and the apparently seamless interaction of the two GPUs.  It seems to me that the two drivers would at least have to know about each other.  I mean, somebody has to decide which subsystem is going to be used, and who is going to own the output port at any given time.  So, would this be nVidia's doing?  Just for information, I'm including screenshot(s) of the System Information window of the nVidia Control Panel.  I do notice that it seems to have full 16 lanes on the PCI Express bus.nVidia_SI-1.JPG

                                  nVidia_SI-2.JPG

                                  Anyway, thank you for your perseverence and your patience.  I think we can call the question (mostly) answered.

                                   

                                  Best Regards,

                                  Richard

                                  • 14. Re: NUCD54250WYK No display on 4K television via HDMI
                                    Intel Corporation
                                    This message was posted by Intel Corporation on behalf of

                                    Hi Freddyzdead,
                                     
                                    Great to know that the adapter works; answering your questions, DP and HDMI are pretty similar the adapter could be passive.
                                    If there is anything else you need, please let me know.
                                     
                                    Regards,
                                    Hellen.