13 Replies Latest reply on May 21, 2016 2:46 PM by Ryan.S. Branched from an earlier discussion.

    Skylake Intel 530 29/59 problem on some content in Windows Media Center #WMC

    NicJ

      I've just upgraded my old HTPC to a GA-H170N-WIFI (Skylake w/ Intel 530), and I'm hitting this 29/59 problem on some content from my Windows Media Center via a Ceton InfiniTV 4 card.

       

      Disabling Contrast Enhancement helped reduce some ugly light-dark flickering, but hasn't fixed the video stuttering problem.


      One strange thing that helps is running WMC in un-maximized mode but taking 1920x1080 pixels.  I don't see any stuttering then.  But having the window like that looks horrible in the family room, as you can see the window border, taskbar, etc.


      Are there any other solutions?  Does disabling Contrast Enhancement only apply to windowed video, or, is there another setting that applies Contrast Enhancement to full-screen (WMC) content?

        • 1. Re: Skylake Intel 530 29/59 problem on some content in Windows Media Center #WMC
          NicJ

          I couldn't find any way around the stutter.

           

          I ended up purchasing a dedicated Nvidia GT 730 low-profile graphics card to solve the issue.

          • 2. Re: Skylake Intel 530 29/59 problem on some content in Windows Media Center #WMC
            Don_Russ

            Also happens with the 4400.

             

            The problem is with the crappy hardware the cable companies use to recode the video. It is constantly sending out wrong info on the frame rate causing the display driver to reset its image enhancements to the new rate. Don't blame Microsoft or Intel for this.  This is only a problem for hardware that pays attention to that info. Once again I screwed out of hours of time by Comcast.

             

            To fix the Intel 4400 graphics controller 29/59 problem:

             

             

            - Right-Click on the desktop

            - Select Graphics Properties

            - When the Intel HD Graphics Control Panel opens click on the Video icon

            - In the upper left there is a dastardly hidden pull-down menu labeled Video. Pull it down and select Image Enhancement.

            - Select Advanced on the top menu

            - Under Contrast Enhancement select Disable

             

             

            At this point the flicker stopped but the stutter was still there. I then turned off every enhancement I could. Film Mode Detection, Noise Reduction - Application Setting, Skin Tone Enhancement, Sharpness -Application Setting, Set refresh Rate to 59p, Quantization Range Limited, IT Content Disable (This made a BIG difference)

             

            • 3. Re: Skylake Intel 530 29/59 problem on some content in Windows Media Center #WMC
              Ryan.S.

              Don_Russ wrote:

               

              To fix the Intel 4400 graphics controller 29/59 problem:

               

               

              - Right-Click on the desktop

              - Select Graphics Properties

              - When the Intel HD Graphics Control Panel opens click on the Video icon

              - In the upper left there is a dastardly hidden pull-down menu labeled Video. Pull it down and select Image Enhancement.

              - Select Advanced on the top menu

              - Under Contrast Enhancement select Disable

               

               

              At this point the flicker stopped but the stutter was still there. I then turned off every enhancement I could. Film Mode Detection, Noise Reduction - Application Setting, Skin Tone Enhancement, Sharpness -Application Setting, Set refresh Rate to 59p, Quantization Range Limited, IT Content Disable (This made a BIG difference)

               

              Bumping an old thread.

               

              Like NicJ, I too have a skylake GPU (HD 520) using a NUC NUC6i3SYH with windows media center (WMC).  I obviously don't have the ability to upgrade the GPU like he did.

               

              I'm running into the same issue - disable 'Contrast Enhancement' and the flickering goes away, but on HBO/Cinemax (channels that have changing framerates) I get major stuttering which makes it pretty much unwatchable.  I changed all of the settings above, with no luck.

               

              I've been faced with the 29/59 bug on many generations of Intel HD graphics, and 'Contrast Enhancement' disable was always the solution.  It seems like additional problems were introduced in the new generation GPUs.  Does anyone else have a skylake GPU and a potential workaround?

              • 4. Re: Skylake Intel 530 29/59 problem on some content in Windows Media Center #WMC
                allan_intel

                Have you loaded default settings at bios level?

                Can you provide memory part number?

                Is there any way you can provide memory speed? you could try CPU-Z to get that information. (Screenshot)

                 

                Allan.

                • 5. Re: Skylake Intel 530 29/59 problem on some content in Windows Media Center #WMC
                  Ryan.S.
                  • I loaded bios defaults with no change.  The only item I had changed previously was GPU RAM and aperture size (to 1GB).
                  • Memory is: Kingston Technology HyperX Impact 16GB RAM DDR4 2133 HX421S13IBK2/16
                    • It's not officially supported, but if you research on the NUC forums, it's really the only stable RAM you can currently get on the unit
                  • Screenshots Attached with CPU-Z info
                  • I also have a dropbox link with a recording of how it looks on my display.  You can see choppiness, and the audio doesn't match up with the lips on screen. (recording is 60fps)
                    • Dropbox - wmc_hbo_sample.MOV
                    • This happens on all of the HBO and Cinemax channels (channels that frequently have the 29/59 bug across many cable providers).  All other channels are working well so far.
                    • When this occurs, the Windows Media Interface is also very slow and choppy when navigating through the guide/menu
                  • I'm currently using drivers 15.40.18.4380 - I have not tried any earlier releases
                  • O/S is Windows 7 Ultimate x64 SP1 with all updates

                  cpuz-02.PNG cpuz-03.PNG

                  • 6. Re: Skylake Intel 530 29/59 problem on some content in Windows Media Center #WMC
                    Bryce@Intel

                    Hey All,

                    I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but there's two issues at play here, AFAIK and only one is 'fixable'. It's explained in the older thread I branched this from [link below] but I'll explain here too.

                    Windows media center and intel 4600 graphics live tv stutter

                    1. Video playback stutters or "glitches" in Windows Media Center when frame rate changes occur (5643022)

                    This has been reported as an application bug by Microsoft in KB_2658140. A case was opened internally to investigate if we could work around this bug via the Intel graphics driver. The investigation determined that due to the nature of this issue a workaround in the Intel graphics driver is technically unfeasible.

                     

                    2. Chrome freezing when playing YouTube videos using HTML5 (7432330)

                    As Robert mentioned before:

                    For the folks seeing video stuttering/corruption with YouTube using HW rendering on Hybrid Graphics systems with 4K display when using Chrome, Chrome player is not optimized for 4k playback, there is significant overhead on both CPU and GPU side resulting in the stuttering issue.

                     

                    - Appended 04/05/16 -

                    3. Video flicker seen during premium channel playback (6493253)

                    There is a flicker/stutter during premium channel playback which has been determined as being affected by the "Advanced Contrast Enhancement" or ACE feature. To be clear, this is different than the WMC app bug mentioned above which Intel cannot work around in our driver. To work around this ACE issue, please disable ACE in the CUI when experiencing this issue by going to Video>Advanced>Color Enhancement>Disable.

                     

                    Don_Russ mentioned some information which supports the KB article. Thanks for the info Don.

                    Don_Russ Apr 5, 2016 5:51 PM (in response to NicJ)

                    The problem is with the crappy hardware the cable companies use to recode the video. It is constantly sending out wrong info on the frame rate causing the display driver to reset its image enhancements to the new rate. Don't blame Microsoft or Intel for this.  This is only a problem for hardware that pays attention to that info. Once again I screwed out of hours of time by Comcast.

                    • 7. Re: Skylake Intel 530 29/59 problem on some content in Windows Media Center #WMC
                      Ryan.S.

                      Thanks for moving this into a new thread.

                       

                      While I understand the issue is ultimately sourced at the content provider messing with frame rates & metadata combined with the WMC MPEG decoder for protected content, it is worth noting that I can overcome this problem using previous generation Intel HD graphics from the following (other systems in my environment):

                       

                      HD 3000 (2500k - the system I replaced with the NUC)

                      HD 4000 (3570k)

                      HD 4400 (4210u)

                      HD 4600 (4790k)

                      (my first HTPC with a Celeron G550 also bypassed the issue)

                       

                      All of the above play back the content fine when disabling automatic contrast in Intel drivers, yet my more powerful HD 520 has constant stuttering.  Clearly there could be a workaround of some sort whether official or unofficial because it exists in older generation products.  Nearly any modern AMD or Nvidia GPU also does not experience the problem.

                       

                      I understand that WMC is dead platform as far as Microsoft is concerned, but it is still the only platform that plays back DRM protected TV content, so some people like myself are hanging onto it.  I am eyeing a 6i7KYK to replace my main HTPC (3570k) in May, but this issue remaining would be a deal breaker... at least until (well, if...) a valid WMC replacement comes out.

                      • 8. Re: Skylake Intel 530 29/59 problem on some content in Windows Media Center #WMC
                        Ryan.S.

                        Okay, so I have a some good news.  The issue I have is most definitely related to drivers.  So far I have confirmed it always happens using driver versions:

                        15.40.18.4380

                        Beta 15.40.20.4404

                         

                        However, I tried downgrading to 15.40.14.4352.  Initially the problem still existed, but I went into the settings and toggled "Contrast Enhancement" On and back Off, and the problem went away.  One caveat is that the problem comes back after a reboot, but toggling it will once again fix it.  I may try 15.40.7.4279 to see if that remedies it entirely. I also tried this process with the newer drivers mentioned above and it made no difference.

                         

                        So considering the details in my last post, the workaround breaking is definitely sourced by Intel drivers.  And yes I will restate that the actual source of the problem is from the content provider/cable company as described in the MS KB.  But in my opinion, Intel can definitely "fix" the issue for users because I have shown that it can work with older Skylake drivers, and many previous generations of HD graphics do not have the problem once Contrast Enhancement is disabled (from my experience).

                         

                        I guess it's up to Intel whether they actually want to research into this more and "fix" it, but I just wanted to share my experience here in case any other WMC + Skylake users run into the issue.

                        • 9. Re: Skylake Intel 530 29/59 problem on some content in Windows Media Center #WMC
                          Undecided

                          I experienced both the stutter and the flicker. The flicker was corrected by turning off the auto-contrast as suggested. The stutter remains and it does not always happen. It depends on the show. The interesting thing is that my old HTPC (a celeron 1037U) with Windows 7 x64 WMC did not exhibit the stutter at all. My new HTPC is an i3-4010U does stutter. The only other variable that the new HTPC is a Windows 8.1 x64 WMC. Another interesting tidbit is that Kodi on the same htpc does not stutter even when playing very high bitrate 1080p video. So the hardware is capable of working fine. It's WMC that is doing some strange.

                           

                          I am in the process of putting together a Pentium 3805 HTPC and I will do so with Windows 7 x64 WMC and I will report back.

                          • 10. Re: Skylake Intel 530 29/59 problem on some content in Windows Media Center #WMC
                            smassey321

                            Also having flickering/freeing issues with WMC 8.1 on my new NUC6i5.  It worked fine when I got it in January.  Things started getting worse with each video driver update and now it won't roll back now so I am stuck.  It has been 90 days so I can't return this thing now.  For shows that are bad I can play them back with VLC.  Luckily HBO plays in WMC fine.  My wife thinks I am idiot for going through all of this just to watch tv

                            • 11. Re: Skylake Intel 530 29/59 problem on some content in Windows Media Center #WMC
                              Bryce@Intel

                              Hi Ryan.S.

                              My Devs are curious about what you're stating and are asking if you could provide your config details and some more info. Please read thru the sticky and provide what it asks for and I'll have Dev take a closer look. Thanks.

                              Default level information for reporting Graphics issues

                              • 12. Re: Skylake Intel 530 29/59 problem on some content in Windows Media Center #WMC
                                Ryan.S.

                                Category

                                Questions

                                Answers (N/A if not applicable)

                                Description

                                Provide a detailed description of the issue

                                Choppiness/stuttering on WMC copy-once channels using variable frame rates (29/59 HBO, Cinemax)

                                Does it fail every single time, or only sometimes?
                                If you can offer a % rate please do.

                                Sometimes with 20.19.15.4352.  Every time with later versions.

                                Hardware (HW)

                                Brand and Model of the system.

                                BOXNUC6i3SYH

                                Hybrid or switchable graphics system?
                                ie Does it have AMD or NV graphics too?

                                N/A

                                Make and model of any Displays that are used to see the issue (see note2 below).
                                LFP
                                = Local Flat Panel (Laptop panel)
                                EFP = External Flat Panel (Monitor you plug in)

                                EFP Samsung UN55ES7100

                                How much memory [RAM] in the system (see note2 below).

                                16GB

                                Provide any other hardware needed to replicate the issue.
                                ie: Cables&brand, cable type [vga, hdmi, DP, etc], dock, dongles/adapters, etc

                                Monoprice generic HDMI 1.4

                                Hardware Stepping (see note1 below).

                                PCI\VEN_8086&DEV_1916&SUBSYS_20638086&REV_07

                                Software (SW)

                                Operating System version (see note2 below).

                                Windows 7 Ultimate (6.1.7601 Build 7601)

                                VBIOS (video BIOS) version. This can be found in “information page” of CUI (right click on Desktop and select “Graphics Properties”.

                                1036.0

                                Graphics Driver version; for both integrated Intel and 3rd party vendors (see note2 below).

                                20.19.15.4352

                                SW or Apps version used to replicate the issue.

                                Windows Media Center.  Cable card tuner (Silicon Dust/Ceton) on copy-once protected premium channel (HBO, Cinemax).

                                Configurations

                                Single display, clone, or extended (see note2 below).

                                Single Display

                                Display resolution & refresh rate setting of each display (see note2 below).

                                1080p60

                                AC or DC mode, i.e. is power cable plugged in or not?

                                AC

                                How to repro

                                Please provide steps to replicate the issue.  These steps are very crucial to finding the root cause and fix.
                                A screenshot to illustrate the issue is a huge plus. A video of the failure is even better! Attach to the post or provide the YouTube link.

                                1. Install 20.19.16.4352 drivers
                                2. Under the graphics control panel, go to Video -> Image Enhancement -> Advanced -> Turn off Contrast Enhancement
                                3. Reboot
                                4. Launch WMC and playback copy-once channel with 29/59 issues (HBO, Cinemax)
                                5. Depending on the program, the image should stutter heavily/playback choppy.
                                6. Open Graphics Control Panel. Turn on contrast Enhancement -> Apply -> Turn off contrast Enhancement -> Apply
                                7. WMC copy-once 29/59 channel should now playback smooth.
                                8. Rebooting with cause the issue again, and requires Contrast Enhancement to be toggled on/off.
                                9. Drivers newer than 20.19.16.4352 always experience the choppiness issue.  Cannot use the Contrast Enhancement work around.
                                10. Dropbox link showing choppiness and workaround fix: Dropbox - intel_skylake.MOV

                                ...

                                Note1:

                                • 13. Re: Skylake Intel 530 29/59 problem on some content in Windows Media Center #WMC
                                  Ryan.S.

                                  I have also confirmed that this happens on the following NUC units:

                                  NUC5PPYH (Braswell Intel HD Graphics)

                                  NUC6i7KYK (Iris 580 Pro)

                                   

                                  Unfortunately, neither one of these units can take the 16.4352 drivers that I mentioned with the workaround above.  I tried the entire driver range on both units above on Windows 7 x64.

                                   

                                  Just wanted to make a forewarning to anyone out there that may use a NUC with windows media center (WMC) - I would definitely not recommend it.  The only Intel HD graphics I have seen work reliably with these bad 29/59 protected channels, are Sandy/Ivy Bridge HD graphics, and some Haswell chips. 

                                   

                                  I've yet to run into an AMD or Nvidia graphics chipset that has this problem.  I love the NUC hardware, but it's a bit frustrating when most/all of the under powered, low end AMD CPU/GPU combos handle this fine, and modern Intel HD chips falter.