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Various questions regarding SSD

redux Community Member
Currently Being Moderated

What is the best raid stripe size for the X25-E and X-25-M?

Will the existing line of Intel SSD's be compatible with Windows 7 TRIM command? If so when is this likely to happen?

If TRIM is going to be supported will it be supported via RAID?

Is there any update on the new 34nm SSD product line? When will specs be available?

Will the 34nm technology use the same controller or will it be a new controller?

EDIT:

 

I can now answer part of my own question. After extensive testing with IOmeter I have concluded that a 128k stripe size is going to work best for raid 0 in the vast majority of cases, and certainly for normal OS use. That is based on test results using two different controllers and stripe sizes ranging between 16k & 1042k. (Tests on one controller were limited to 256k due to limitations of the controller.) This involved a lot of work, for something that could easily have been explained.

 

 

 

Intel....

you are currently dealing with enthusiasts in your new SSD market, who are interested in the technology and want to know as much as possible about it. Why have the anonymous corporate attitude to your new and exciting product line? Why is there the party line of saying nothing about such an exciting product? (Even something as basic as letting people know they should be using AHCI and not IDE mode).MS seemed to have learnt that this is not the way to go with all the fantastic work they have done with Windows 7. Enthusiasts are raving about Windows 7 and that is going to really help Windows 7 launch to the mainstream with maximum impact.

 

Every now and then it is good to throw your (loyal) dog a bone ;)

 

 

 

Various questions regarding SSD

  • 1. Re: Various questions regarding SSD
    redux Community Member
    Currently Being Moderated

    So, MS asked SSD manufacturers to work with them on SSD optimisations last November. The TRIM command spec was at rev 6 in 2007.

    SSD optimisations, including TRIM have been in Windows 7 from day one. RC is publically available .........and no one can say if/ when it will be supported in a fw update?

  • 2. Re: Various questions regarding SSD
    redux Community Member
    Currently Being Moderated

    anything.......?

  • 3. Re: Various questions regarding SSD
    redux Community Member
    Currently Being Moderated

    Am I asking for a trade secret or something by asking if/ when TRIM will be supported in the current range of SSD’s? I don’t understand the stone wall of silence on this subject.......

    /thread/3827?tstart=0

  • 4. Re: Various questions regarding SSD
    ojconcentrate Community Member
    Currently Being Moderated

    i was wondering the same things.

    unfortunately i don't think the information will become available until its available i know. it sucks.

    and as you know, intel has policies of not comenting on unreleased products/technologies. i too wish there was more 'wiggle-room'.

     

    OJ

  • 5. Re: Various questions regarding SSD
    redux Community Member
    Currently Being Moderated

    I can maybe understand why they don’t want to say anything about the new gen drives, although quite a few clues from Intel already exist, but the current drives are released products and all I am asking is a question about functionality. A good product talks by itself and the X25’s are an exceptional product...but a little more info for end users would be helpful. Intel don't seem to be so shy when it comes to cpu's

  • 6. Re: Various questions regarding SSD
    ojconcentrate Community Member
    Currently Being Moderated

    i know... it sucks.

     

    OJ

  • 7. Re: Various questions regarding SSD
    afrosty Community Member
    Currently Being Moderated

    @ redux and other Intel SSD Enthusiasts

     

    Greetings from the NAND Solutions Group inside Intel!

     

    First, we appreciate your support and enthusiam for our product.  We believe we have the highest performing and most reliable SSD in the market today.

     

    To address some of your questions:

    • We are currently looking at product intercept timelines for TRIM capabilities.  Look for updates during announcements for upcoming product lines.
    • As you can imagine we have had a lot of interest in our new 34nm technology.  Detailed specs will be available when product is released. 
    • We recognize your comment regarding optimizing our drives.  Thanks for the input, as we're always looking to improve user experiences with our products and documentation.

     

    We appreciate your loyalty and would love to throw each of you a specific "bone". Though we can't release "bones" in a public blog, stay tuned for upcoming product announcements.

     

    Alan

    Intel NAND Solutions Group

  • 8. Re: Various questions regarding SSD
    redux Community Member
    Currently Being Moderated

    Thanks for the feedback.

    Could you maybe please explain a bit more about how the X25-e works with raid 0? I appreciate this is normally an issue primarily related to computer use, but obviously ssd works quite differently to hdd and it would be really interesting to understand the issues related to the X25-e.

    For example, I’ve tried various stripe sizes and anything between 64K & 256k works quite well, but smaller stripe sizes seem to really have a negative impact. Why would that be the case? Do smaller stripe sizes have a detrimental impact to wear levelling and write amplification? I'm not looking for an insight into how the technology works (although that would be nice) I'm just trying to understand how to use the product to its best ability.

    Good luck with the 34nm technology. I’ve heard that it will be quite a feat of engineering and I’m really looking forward to its release.

    ps....does "look for upcomming product lines" mean no TRIM suppport for existing product lines?

  • 9. Re: Various questions regarding SSD
    redux Community Member
    Currently Being Moderated

    Intel,

    I don’t really like analogies, but here goes one anyway. I buy a Rolls-Royce, it has no manual and I don’t know if I should use leaded or unleaded fuel. I ask Rolls-Royce and all they will say is “we are precluded to discuss policies regarding product information”.

    Please.....can you at least explain raid 0 issues in context of how they work/ affect your ssd’s?

  • 10. Re: Various questions regarding SSD
    tingshen Community Member
    Currently Being Moderated

    afrosty, thanks for replying!

     

    I have a serious question. What is the minimum requirement for a RAID controller to see significant benefits in using X25-E? What about X25-M?

     

    We saw an abnormal performance issue with Intel Modular Server's storage controller module (SCM) originate from the LSI* 1068 and PM8399* devices.

    This is the ATTO results with 6xX25-E 32GB:

    http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/36/6x25eslc.png


    This is worse than the performance of a single drive!

     

    Would switching to X25-M help?

     

    The OS we are using is Windows2008x64.

  • 11. Re: Various questions regarding SSD
    Bob Community Member
    Currently Being Moderated

    "We are currently looking at product intercept timelines for TRIM capabilities.  Look for updates during announcements for upcoming product lines."  Does this mean that existing solid state drives will not be able to use trim?

  • 12. Re: Various questions regarding SSD
    tingshen Community Member
    Currently Being Moderated

    Hi redux, may I know how many X25-E do you have in your RAID 0 disk array?

  • 13. Re: Various questions regarding SSD
    zulishk Community Member
    Currently Being Moderated

    I'm not an expert on SSD any more than most of you, but I do know that internally, SSD drives use a flash-like technology on chips, not platters like HDDs.  These chips use fixed-size addressable pages to read/write data.  SSDs must read/write very specific page-sizes somewhat like sectors on HDDs, but not exactly.  For example, if you write only 2K of data, the SSD would actually need to read a 128K page of data, make changes to the data in RAM/cache, clear the original 128K page of data, then re-write 128K of data.  This might be why you see gains and specific sizes of striping.  I cannot speak as to what page sizes are optimal for the Intel SSDs, but perhaps you've discovered it.  If you're striping is smaller (say, 4K), then it must repeat this procedure multiple times for the same 128K page because you've taken perhaps 64K of data and broken into 8 write operations.  Does this make sense?

     

    Reference: http://www.anandtech.com/printarticle.aspx?i=3531

  • 14. Re: Various questions regarding SSD
    redux Community Member
    Currently Being Moderated

    Hi tingshen,

     

    I have two x25-e's on a 5405. Your atto benchmark is seriously out of tilt. I can hit 500mb/sec with my set up. You can find reviews as linked below, which should give you a better idea of what you should be able to achieve.

    http://www.areca.com.tw/products/pcie341.htm  (check out the pdf download in relative resource box)

     

    http://it.anandtech.com/IT/showdoc.aspx?i=3532&p=1

     

    http://techreport.com/articles.x/16291/1

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