yf38, I'm glad you reminded us of your earlier post, I went back and found it, and read many of the other posts (my eyes are crossed!! ) I'm referring to those odd and very wrong temperature readings.
My latest theory on the cause of the fan surging, FWIW (not much...) is this; First, C-State is Enabled. So the PC is on but not much happening, you're reading a Web page, Windows just happens to not be doing anything and the CPU dips into C1 state, then C3... until it hits C5, C6, or C7, where the dang CPU clock is turned off. Meanwhile, lots of other things are happening on the CPU, including sending temperature sensor outputs. I'm guessing that the transition into the lowest (highest?) C-State causes the abnormal temperature reading, which seems to become locked into that condition, and the software using that reading reacts in a manner that ramps up the CPU fan speed. That occurs on the 308 revision and not the 310 revision as noted by yf38, and it would be interesting to know what the difference between those revisions is.
The inductor noise issue remains mysterious, including the fact that R. Gifford does not experience this, although it's not clear what his C-State setting is. My Q8300 CPU is a 4 Core 4 Thread, 95W TDP device, as is his Q9550, so those factors are not related to this issue, apparently.
Regarding BIOS updates, I have always used the Windows environment BIOS update, just download and run it, the PC restarts on it's own and the whole process took about five minutes, very simple and works great in my experience (I just wanted to say something good about this board and the software provided for it, whomever worked on that, good job!) Besides the at times flaky BIOS (079, OMG!) and this C-State fan and inductor noise thing, this board has been great.
About wrong temperature measurements and the conséquences on fan speed we have similar opinions.
I was thinking to electrical noise induced by these strong clock changes and current surges associated.
Different boards dont have the same sensitivity, this suggest that the issue has something sensitive to signals timing / level.
About my two boards revisions (you crossed good and bad one) their behaviour is:
308: subject to inductor noise, solved from bios 113, not subject to fan speed issue. (but FK had fan issue with a 308).
It is not clear if noise inductor on 308 was solved by an enforced C states disabled (in bios 113), because C states control was not proposed in bios until 129/131.
I would have to run 135 with C States enabled for some time to check if some noise appears again, or check what I wrote about this when running 129/131 at the begining with C States enabled.
310: Not subject to inductor noise (maybe better checked coils on 310 ?), subject to fan speed issue if C States enabled, even with bios 135.
For me this motherboard was good enough, however the two previous ones ( D875PBZ and DG965WH) were not subject to such issues, and the new one (DH67GD) seems very good (dont speek about B2 chipset...), except at the very first bios rev. with a fan speed control issue (yes they can !) that was solved very quickly.
Quad8300 still has occasional fan issue on prolonged running. Restart is required and it seems if I then unplug the keyboard and mouse the issue will not be seen for a while, or maybe I don’t sleep as much. Timing seems to be relevant with the keyboard on start and wireless modem completing connection at the desktop. parsec summed up my general opinion on C states and component combinations are involved.
Quad6600/GT240/Hauppage1255 fans seems OK but recording fails that is station specific. This or WMC messes up restarts after recording. There is too much to sift through on theGreenButton and AVSforums. In any event WMC may restart the computer on update (with new settings?) and it is surprisingly slow.
E6400 monitor sleeps 2 minutes after signal is discontinued. No fan issues are apparent but it seems relevant. Perhaps this monitor cools before sleeping. I vaguely recall settings adjust to usage (for example if it is usually reactivated promptly after sleep).
I had only used performance setting until recently (hibernation, no computer sleep) so I have limited experience. The inductor noise in my experience has been from the case but noises preceded my system failure with a 965WH so this is not to be ignored.
yf38, Sorry to mix up the revisions and symptoms, with all the BIOS updates thrown in I can't keep up. I've gone a simpler route and just use the latest BIOS, since as far as I recall, I've always had the fan speed and inductor noise issues with C-State enabled.
I've also just confirmed that I have the 310 revision, not 308 as I stated previously. So now I must muck-up your conclusion...
I am quite sure I've had both inductor noise and the racing fan speed issues on a 310 revision DG45ID with C-State enabled, with previous BIOS versions.
Flashed to BIOS 0135.2011.0225.1100 two days ago, and will now enable C-State in the BIOS (I'm using another PC for this post.) And away we go...
And the verdict is, I have the inductor noise. Same as usual, similar to a mild beeping sound, not unpleasant actually, very low level but audible. Not a constant sound, but varies in and out, on and off, on more than off. With earlier BIOS versions, upon restart I would experience the CPU fan throttling wide open during POST, which would then stop, not an issue that concerns me whatsoever, I've had that with other PCs/hardware. That does not happen with the 135 BIOS, FWIW. Ok, restarting and disabling C-State, just a moment...
And inductor noise gone. Sure is consistent at least. To be complete, I will add that I've had C1E enabled at all times, and I have not experienced any Sleep-Wake Up problems, with fans running during sleep (which I think is what S1 or S2 state is supposed to do, while S3 is sleep with no fans, S-states being different than C-State, to be clear) or the shutdown-immediate reboot phenomenon I've read others have. Oh drat, I ran the DG45ID PC for only about 20 minutes with C-State enabled, and did not have the CPU fan switch to full speed during that interval, sorry I'll need to check for that.
yf38, I checked my DG45ID's revsion in the BIOS, with a hardware monitor, and IDU, all report this string: AAE27729-310. What can I say...
The full speed fan during startup/post is normal and related to the option of fan detection in the bios.
If you disable or ask only "next boot" this will no more happen at each restart.
About inductor noise with your 310, I am not so surprised even if mine is silent, there may be good inductors and not so good even with 310.
It is interesting that you confirm that the noise is canceled when C State is disabled. I think I have observed the same after upgrading from 117 to 129 / 131 before disabling C State. I am searching if and where I let a written trace of that...
I strongly suspect that C state was disabled by the bios (with no option) starting at 113 and kept like this until 129/131 where it appeared as an option, and this is why FK (if I remember well) preconisation was at this moment, to come back from 129/131 to 117 having a better behaviour.
To check the fan speed issue with 135 I again used SIW (as explained page 4) and after less than one hour (of my wife using her PC...) I observed the negative temperature which correlates with fan speed issue.
If you try it you will certainly observe the same (let stop the IDU during this test, using windows 7 system configuration startup options).
With C state disabled a full day run didnt show this symptom.
Remember that my 310 rarely locked at full speed, most of the time it only rised spuriously the fan speed and then came back to more normal behaviour.
Some people with a very silent cpu fan may have the issue without being aware.
The conclusion for me is to keep C state disabled, for both board rev.
For my Vista system, changing the power management has so far eliminated the occurrence of fan speed irregularity. Swapping of a monitor lacking a USB connection for the existing one having USB ports can disrupt monitor sleep and cascade to other computer functions. In my case the lower latency of the RAM may have contributed to problems.
This link http://www.vistax64.com/tutorials/63567-power-options-sleep-mode-problems.html is also intended for Win 7. Since I have infrequent problems, with my power supplies and processors, I have yet to see a difference on Win 7. An alternative to disabling of C states may be changes such as disabling of USB selective suspend (infrequently used ports become unpowered) and PCI Express Link State Power Management (power reduction of inactive devices, which may cascade). Disabling of wake the computer with the HID keyboard in device manager might also have an effect with some keyboards.
Some of the recommended settings found in the link are not the default settings found in Win 7 for any power scheme. No mention was found of C states. Changing to Permit idling to sleep for multimedia will invoke problems with DNS client that I can't recommend without further investigation.
At best, the changes listed in my last post had no long term effect for me. The link does give the most comprehensive description of the power management options, with sleep and hibernation being best served. I can only add that monitors demonstrate differing sensitivity to the components present regarding sleep. Hopefully, monitor lifespans will increase or it will be expensive maintaining multiple systems.
yf38, Sorry, but my DG45ID PC has been resting lately as I've been playing with new toys. Anyway, time to revive it, after a failed attempt to move it to a smaller case... it worked but was not good enough for me...
I'm quite familiar with full fan speeds at start up, that is common with most mother boards, I was referring to the old fan speed surging issue, which I have not had in a long time. Yes I too keep C-State disabled, as enabling that also enables inductor noise like turning on a light switch. My CPU temps are very good, EIST works fine, so enabled C-State only causes minor grief, as I don't recall my CPU temps being better with it activated. As this board is now EOL, and the G45 chipset discontinued, I doubt this issue will be addressed. I never dedicated myself to tracking the various BIOS versions, board revisions, and C-State weirdness as you did, but the info I posted about it was carefully checked and correct.
Time to get on the IDU test band-wagon, and Gawd only knows how many updates to Win 7 are waiting for me...
I also recently discovered, through trial and error, that enabling C-states cause crashing of my computer occasionally when Windows 7 tries to put it to sleep. Never had the crashing when I MANUALLY told it to sleep...and it didn't do it every time when it was automatic...but about 50% of the time, if it's been idle for 1 hour and then auto-sleeps, it would just hang. Since disabling C-states, and (I also first tried disabling hard-disk sleep, which seemed to help slightly) the problem has gone away.
What I think happened is that it took the processor/mobo/hard-drive more time to wake up from COMPONENT sleep than it took Windows 7 to enter SYSTEM sleep, and windows didn't bother to wait for the processor to wake up before initiating the system sleep mode...or something like that.
Issues due to "timing", either early or late response by one thing or another can cause unwanted behavior. I'm dealing with an issue where a PC won't wake from sleep, the PC "wakes", meaning it starts when triggered to, but the monitor does not receive a signal and a USB connected keyboard does not receive power. Apparently there is a spec of the amount of time a PS should send the "PS OK' signal to the system, but the one I am using it out of spec, it is slow on sending that signal, according to a PS testing device. While that seemed to make sense, I thought about it for a while, and decided it wasn't that simple or I did not know enough about the what was happening to come to a conclusion.
Your idea seems to make sense, since at the lowest C-State level (highest numerically) the CPU is literally shut down from the descriptions I've read. So the PC attempts to start when the last state the CPU was in is virtually shut off, which was preserved and becomes it's state upon waking from sleep. That sounds reasonable. My question becomes, if the CPU is executing any and all programs on a PC, including the OS, how can the OS do anything if the CPU is not running? It can't. Of course it is not that simple, to say "the CPU is not running" is an ignorant generalization on my part, there are so many things to consider. So as you say, or something like that.
It's frustrating for me, and if I may speak for others, frustrating for us, as we flounder about in forums trying to figure out issues, when the answer is very complex, or just simple. Then again, we take for granted that the fix is simple and is just waiting in someone's brain to be provided. IMO, PCs simply aren't that simple. Whether or not the intent of forums such as this one is to inspire people to learn more, rather than have a tech expert answer them instantly for us, I don't know. Personally, it motivates me to learn more, and in helping other people I learn more.
Another issue to consider is when to update the BIOS. The only way I can see to correct the sleep problem of my monitor on system #4 is to update the BIOS. Since it has version 135 this would require recovery to an earlier version then update. The fix at the moment is to use a D-Sub to DVI converter. This is what started the problem originally after using a CRT with only VGA. This is convenient in that the second D-Sub can be connected to the XP system improving its appeal. Unfortunately the aluminum case is way too noisy. A clean install did not fix this issue so something in the BIOS must be involved or the DVI logic of the board. That would mean other hardware changes are likewise problematic. In my case only monitor sleep by itself was the issue.
I have installed IDU 184.108.40.206a on system #3 that has Q8300 CPU, pressing my luck at the moment since I do not have C-states disabled. That will possibly determine whether it was a change in audio while online that resulted in corruption. With current software I find avoiding problems is better than disabling features.
Further to my earlier post (117 in this thread) Intel have now released an updated IDT audio driver for this board (which resolves the audio problems I was experiencing) and I've updated my PSU to a new, more powerful model and that's allowed me to use the latest BIOS version and have all default values loaded for the CPU with NONE of the problems I was previously having with the fan. It seems that even though my old 350 watt PSU was still delivering voltages within the green range (using BIOS 0131), the IDU warnings I was getting with BIOS 0135 about low voltage on the 3.3 volt rail were valid and my new PSU (which gives an almost constant 3.4 volts on this rail) has made the world of difference. Those of you still experiencing this fan locking into high speed mode problem may want to check your PSUs. I'm very glad to say this wasn't down to an Intel bug with the latest BIOS afterall and I'm now a happy DG45ID user.
[Edit 13/05/12 14:15: It looks like I spoke to soon as although I'm still not getting the fan locking into high speed mode problem anymore, some fan hunting and irregular speed problems have crept back in (as well as some high pitched squealing noises from the motherboard). I've therfore been forced to (once again) disable CPU C-State power saving in the BIOS. I'm not sure why it was initially fine as all I've done since was install and try Win 8 CP and then revert back to Win 7 with a fresh install (using the same drivers and setup that previously worked fine). Looks like this board will live out the rest of its days with CPU C-States disabled as at least it works reliably and quietly then.]
Wow, amazing, that is good news! I wonder how many other boards use that audio driver? Kinda hard to believe they updated something for this "old" board or it's family alone.
Alas, I seem to have killed my DG45ID. Specifically, the ICH10R chip, by trying to put a heatsink fan on it. Zip ties can be dangerous! I can barely get it to POST most of the time, and from a cold start the HD activity light comes on steadily for several seconds and then goes out, behavior I've never seen before. That was my favorite "surf board" for the Internet and for music and just fooling around. Still playing with it but I think it's a lost cause.
Even worse, try to find a new socket 775 board now! The handful of ones I can find are a weird mix or DDR3 memory, with G41 chipsets, but worst of all, none have the ICH10R. SATA II is Ok, but no RAID? Just what I want, a crummy ICH7 with four SATA ports, even for $50, no thanks. I can't buy a used board, I'd never trust it... hey, I might have found some, might being the keyword, gotta go...
I think it's more of a surprise that the PSU was responsible for the fan locking into high speed mode on my board. Yes it was good of Intel to do the right thing and release a driver update for the IDT audio chip thats used on 3 of their boards (DP45SG, DG45ID & DG45FC) so close to the end of interactive support date but better late than never! Its a shame that your DG45ID has come to grief - just after the last significant bug was ironed out. As you point out, the other socket 775 boards Intel are still doing are nowhere near as good. I can't say I blame them though otherwise people won't be so tempted to go with their newer boards designed for the current batch of CPUs.