13 Replies Latest reply: Sep 27, 2011 6:47 AM by CaSuffit RSS

Bug in Sandy Bridge CPU or Chipset?

nu_ Community Member
Currently Being Moderated

Windows 7 Pro 64bit SP1
CPU: Intel i7 2600 3,4 GHz
Motherboard: Intel DP67BG

RAM: Kingston 12 GB (3x4GB)

Video: Quadro 2000

Sound: M-Audio Delta 1010LT

SSD 240 GB

 

Die Soundkarte erzeugt Knackse und Knistern, mit steigender Tonfrequenz zunehmend Verzerrungen und abnehmende Lautstärke, nach dem Herunterfahren knarren kurz die Lautsprecher. Mehr Informationen siehe im offiziellen M-Audio-Forum in verschiedenen Threads (suche nach '1010LT crackles'). Ein User weist auf ein Latenzproblem hin. Nach Meinung des Moderators gibt es zur Zeit keine PCI-Soundkarte mit getrennten Tonkanälen, die mit sandy-bridge-Prozessoren zusammenarbeitet - wenn ich ihn richtig verstanden habe. Ursache ist ein Kommunikationsproblem zwischen CPU und PCI. Es gibt keine Lösung.

Was kann ich tun?

 

The sound card caused pops and crackles, with increasing frequency distortion and much more damping, shortly after the shutdown of the system creaks of loudspeakers. More informations see in official M-Audio forum in different threads (look for '1010LT crackles'). A user indicates a latency problem. The Moderator says currently no PCI sound card with separate channals can work with sandy bridge processor - if I had understand him correctly. Cause is a problem of communcation between CPU and PCI. There is no solution.

What can I do?

  • 1. Re: Bug in Sandy Bridge CPU or Chipset?
    Flying_Kiwi Community Member
    Currently Being Moderated

    nu_ wrote:


    The Moderator says currently no PCI sound card with separate channals can work with sandy bridge processor - if I had understand him correctly. Cause is a problem of communcation between CPU and PCI. There is no solution.

    What can I do?

    Either wait for a possible (but not by any means guaranteed) solution to come along, replace the soundcard or replace the motherboard. You could also report this to Intel Tech Support and let us know what they say about it here.

     

    I've seen a few of these posts here now so it's very important to research compatibility before making a purchase as (especially when you're talking high end/bleeding edge technology) compatibility cannot be taken for granted.

  • 3. Re: Bug in Sandy Bridge CPU or Chipset?
    nu_ Community Member
    Currently Being Moderated

    Vielen Dank für Eure Antworten. Es werden wohl immer wieder neue Leute auftauchen, die so etwas nicht für möglich hielten und den Fehler bei der Soundkarte suchen. Ich glaube, man kann das nicht als eine Frage der Kompatibilität abtun. Wenn du ein Stromaggregat kaufst, gehst du auch nicht vorher zum Händler und probierst, ob der Stecker deiner Pumpe passt.

    Es ist ein verdeckter Mangel, den ich Intel nie zugetraut hätte. Natürlich gibts nur zwei Lösungen: Entweder das Intel-MoBo oder die Soundkarte. Keine Frage: Das MoBo muss zurück zum Händler.

     

    Many thanks for your answers. It will probably show up again and again new people who did not consider such a thing as possible and find the error in the sound card. I guess you can not dismiss this as a question of compatibility. If you buy a generator, you does not before go to the dealer and try on whether the plug will fit to your pump.
    There is a hidden defect, the Intel I would never have expected. Of course there only two solutions: either the Intel mobo or sound card. No question: The MoBo has returned to the dealer.

  • 4. Re: Bug in Sandy Bridge CPU or Chipset?
    Flying_Kiwi Community Member
    Currently Being Moderated

    nu_ wrote:

     

     

    Many thanks for your answers. It will probably show up again and again new people who did not consider such a thing as possible and find the error in the sound card.

    Glad you've decided what you're going to do and have taken steps accordingly. Given modern add-on cards are now going over to PCIe compatibility to suit current, higher performing slots, the frequency of this problem cropping up over time should diminish.

  • 5. Re: Bug in Sandy Bridge CPU or Chipset?
    Sh4x Community Member
    Currently Being Moderated

    I don't understand how you can say that.  The problem should get fixed, not ignored because only a few people suffer from it.  How fair is it to have to pay additional cost because the hardware you bought doesn't work like it should?  It's not.  I don't like the idea of a world where problems are ignored if it only applies to a small percentage.

     

    Here's a video to show the slowing down problem I get with a Delta1010 card:

     

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8oH8yrihec

  • 6. Re: Bug in Sandy Bridge CPU or Chipset?
    Flying_Kiwi Community Member
    Currently Being Moderated

    Sh4x wrote:

     

    I don't understand how you can say that.

    The reason I wrote that is I understand how such matters usually pan out. I've looked at your video and I clearly see the problem. As this is your first post in this thread have you officially reported the issue to Intel Tech Support and had them create a ticket about the problem? The more people who are affected by the bug complain, the more likely it'll be that something will be done to come up with a solution (however slim that may be).

  • 7. Re: Bug in Sandy Bridge CPU or Chipset?
    nu_ Community Member
    Currently Being Moderated

    OK, now I've learned diligently. It is really not a bug, it is a planned shortage. The direct connections PCI-CPU no longer exist, to force manufacturers to switch to PCI Express peripherals. Therefore pure pedagogy. But while PCI is a streaming concept, PCIe is based on data packets. Although it multiplies the power, but it caused in the sound field latency problems.

  • 8. Re: Bug in Sandy Bridge CPU or Chipset?
    Flying_Kiwi Community Member
    Currently Being Moderated

    I can understand many people perceiving these problems as a bug however. Functionality and compatibility for many PCI cards which was there with older Intel boards is no-longer there to the same extent. Some may say the fact people are being surprised with these sorts of issues means not enough publicizing of these 'planned shortages' as you describe them has taken place. If intel wanted to encourage hardware makers to produce more PCIe and fewer PCI devices, I would have thought the least problematic option for them would be to eliminate PCI slots altogether. People adversely affected by such issues with Intel branded boards should definitely formally report their problem to Intel Tech Support.

  • 9. Re: Bug in Sandy Bridge CPU or Chipset?
    Sh4x Community Member
    Currently Being Moderated

    I don't think they were trying to phase out PCI by having 2 PCI slots on this board and making them not usable.  That doesn't make any sense.  Like you said, if they wanted to phase out PCI, they just wouldn't put them on the board at all.   Now for this motherboard, they did put PCI slots, and customers expect them to work, shocker, right!?

     

    I'm really ****** to have to deal with all this crap honestly.  It's costing me time and money to deal with this problem.  If I ever "get the chance" to send my motherboard back for an exchange, guess who's gonna pay the shipping cost?  Guess who's gonna have to dismantle his entire PC and and reinstall everything from the ground up?  That's like 2 days of work right there cause I have alot of programs and configs, completely waste.  Guess who's gonna be deprived of his working tool for god knows how long?

     

    Were the PCI slots even tested at all on this board??  I don't understand how a problem as obvious as this one got through the testing phase unnoticed....  I don't know what kind of testing goes on at Intel's factories but it doesn't look very thorough that's for sure.

  • 10. Re: Bug in Sandy Bridge CPU or Chipset?
    Sh4x Community Member
    Currently Being Moderated

    I followed your advice Flying_Kiwi and I contacted Live support to see what could be done.  Looks like Intel doesn't wanna stand up and fix their mistake for customers who have been misleaded by their false advertisement.  Here's the chat:

     

     

    Please wait for a site operator to respond.
    You are now chatting with 'Diego'
    Diego: Hello. Thank you for using the Intel Customer Chat Support service. We are glad to be of service. How may I help you?
    : I have a problem with my DP67BG motherboard. The PCI slots don't seem to work when I insert a Delta1010 audio card.
    Diego: Let me help you on your question but bear in mind that for future inquiries you should select the desktop option in order to expedite your request because you have an Intel(R) Desktop Board
    : Oh ok Desktop, got it.
    Diego: Have you tested these slots using another type of PCI card?
    : No, I only have 1 kind.
    : I've been looking on internet and have found alot of people with the same problem. PCI audio cards not working at all on sandy bridge.
    Diego: You may need to check if in this case the issue is that the PCI ports are defective or if there is a compatibility problem with the audio card and this motherboard. You can also update the BIOS of the motherboard and update the firmware of the card in order to troubleshoot the issue
    Diego: Keep in mind that this motherboard does not have a truly PCI bus
    Diego: The PCI ports on that motherboard work through the PCI Express* bus, and this can cause compatibility issues with some devices
    Diego: For example, no PCI video cards are validated for that generation of motherboards
    : Hm... so the PCI slots are not "truly" working is what you're telling me? What are my options if I need the PCI slots on my motherboard to work? Can I exchange the motherboard for another one that has working PCI slots?
    : You can check this link dedicated to the prolem, and I have many others: http://forums.m-audio.com/showthread.php?30793-1010LT-pops-crackles-SANDY-BRIDGE-USERS-PLEASE-READ
    Diego: If you would like to exchange the motherboard for another motherboard you would need to check with your place of purchase. We only replace products for the same model
    Diego: And the PCI port on the motherboard does work
    Diego: What I mentioned is that it is not a truly PCI interface
    Diego: Since it works through the PCI Express* channel, not through a PCI bus
    : And is there any indication on the box that the PCI slots might be different from any other previously used PCI slots?
    : I don't see any to be honest.
    : Maybe I missed something here? The specs advertise PCI slots, I never saw any mention of them being different from the usual PCI slots and therefor risking to NOT work with my 500$+ pci card.
    : Looking at the specs window on the Intel site, it says: Two PCI Conventional bus connectors
    : "conventional PCI bus" is what I expected and did not get.
    Diego: The port is known to be working regularly as a conventional PCI bus, the only limitation is that as per its design PCI video cards are not validated to work
    : I don't care about PCI video cards anyways, my problem is with a profesional AUDIO card.
    Diego: And as I mentioned, you are yet to troubleshoot the issue and confirm if the ports are functional by using another type of  PCI card
    : So what you're saying is: if the port is working with at least 1 PCI card, it means it's OK?
    Diego: We cannot guarantee compatibility with all the devices that are out in the market
    : If that's the kind of testing that goes on at Intel, no wonder we are left with this problem on our hand.
    : You should at least guarantee that it works as advertise.
    : Otherwise it's false advertising.
    : Two PCI conventional bus connectors means they should work normaly like they have always been. But these new PCI ports are different. And that's what the Intel site is lying about.
    : I don't like the fact that it's clearly written on your own site that the motherboard comes with two conventional PCI bus connectors yet it doesn't.
    : They are not conventional PCI bus connectors as you clearly stated yourself earlier on.
    Diego: They are not connected the same way they used to do
    Diego: They are still functional PCI interfaces
    : How is that conventional?
    : Please tell me you at least understand that the Intel site is not telling the customer anything about the PCI slots being different than any previous PCI slots.
    Diego: It is no my intention to argue with you the way you you interpret the way that is described and how is designed. At this point what I can give you is information on the troubleshooting that needs to be done and that is what I have mentioned above
    Diego: Is there something else I would be able to assist you with?
    : Anyways, you're telling me they are functional PCI interfaces and obviously they aren't because otherwise I wouldn't be here trying to make my point to you.
    Diego: I have not heard from you for the last 3 minutes. Would you like me to wait and keep this chat session open for you?
    : Seriously, you should remove the conventional word and put a notice about how these new PCI bus connectors are NOT conventional in fact.
    Diego: I will forward your feedback to the appropriate department
    Diego: Is there something else I would be able to assist you with?
    : Yes, since there was a mistake on the Intel website about the specs of this motherboard and that it caused my alot of trouble, I would like to get a replacement that will work.
    Diego: The replacement we can offer will be for the same model of the motherboard. No upgrade or refund options are available, for that you will need to discuss with your place of purchase
    : I'll see what I can do with my place of purchase but I'm not happy that Intel made this mistake about conventional bus connectors not being conventional. False advertisement on the website is causing alot of trouble for everybody out there with a PCI audio interface.
    : Have a nice day. Thanks for listening.
    Diego: You are welcome
    Diego: Thank you for contacting Intel Technical Support.
    Chat session has been terminated by the site operator.
  • 11. Re: Bug in Sandy Bridge CPU or Chipset?
    rsnetto Community Member
    Currently Being Moderated

    So it seems the PCI bus of Intel Sandy Bridge motherboards was never meant to work completely!

     

    This way I have the proof I needed to return my board. I hope I have a more positive feedback then Sh4x got ("No upgrade or refund options are available") because according to my country's laws, the manufacturer or the reseller must refund the customer if there is no solution for such a case.

     

    PS: I still think it's not a chipset issue, nor a PCIe-PCI bridge limitation. There are reports that PCI cards, that didn't worked with Intel mobos, do work with motherboards from other manufacturers. However, I don't know how "fully" these mobos work, maybe they are just "less incompatible" then Intel's.

  • 12. Re: Bug in Sandy Bridge CPU or Chipset?
    Flying_Kiwi Community Member
    Currently Being Moderated

    Sh4x wrote:

     

    I followed your advice Flying_Kiwi and I contacted Live support to see what could be done.  Looks like Intel doesn't wanna stand up and fix their mistake for customers who have been misleaded by their false advertisement.  <chat transcript snipped>

    It certainly does look that way from what you've presented. The Intel person will be correct though in that Intel wouldn't issue any refunds because your contract of sale is with the supplier. This means if the product is not as advertised (and a printout of the website page mentioning the 'Two PCI Conventional bus connectors' along with a copy of this chat session ought to make things clear enough to the supplier) then the supplier should be working to make things right. In the end, you won't be able to force Intel to change their ways and fix this issue but you can work towards getting a board (of whatever brand) that doesn't have the same issue with your audio card. A third and more expensive option would be to try and sell the audio card secondhand and buy a PCIe version of the same.

     

    Certainly for people considering buying any add-on cards though (audio, TV etc) this shows how important it is to be looking for PCIe these days if the card is for use with modern boards.

  • 13. Re: Bug in Sandy Bridge CPU or Chipset?
    CaSuffit Community Member
    Currently Being Moderated

    Don't worry , DELL computer optiplex 790 /990 do the same unusable PCI slots....

     

     

    The bug is in the  Intel Chipset serie 6.

     

    A nice new one ... (good thing for the material update )

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